Roxy
10″ wide x 8″ high
Hand-cut vellum
_____________________________

Karl: Today is April 19, 2012, and I’ve just ordered lunch at Hugo’s with?

Roxy: Roxy.

Karl: Your approximate age, Roxy?

Roxy: I’m 38. No approximations here.

Karl: Relationship status?

Roxy: Single.

Karl: Occupation or occupations?

Roxy: I’m in Sales. I work for an internet company that sells furniture. I also work at a gym. I’m a personal trainer and I teach.

Karl: What do you teach?

Roxy:  I teach Turbo Kick^®, a Les Mills format called BodyPump^TM, and a brand new format called Nike Training Club that’s just been introduced in Los Angeles by Nike with drills designed by professional athletes.  It’s like boot camp.

Karl: You’ve been doing this for awhile?

Roxy: I’ve been teaching group exercise since 2005.

Karl: You’re in fantastic shape, obviously, I’ll point out for our readers.

Roxy: Thank you. It’s nice to have that in print. *laughs*

Karl: Give us a little background about your life outside of work, what you do in your free time, your hobbies and interests.

Roxy:  Most of my free time is spent at the gym because that’s my fun job.  My day job is busy but I try to balance that with a lot of the friends I’ve got around town.  I like to go out to dinner with them and have a nice bottle of wine.  I love the local hiking.  Griffith Observatory is one of my favorite places in LA.  I love the shows because I can see them over and over again and I always notice new things.  I also like to just sit on the couch and do nothing ’cause I don’t get to do that very often.  Sleeping is my favorite thing.  On Sundays I like to silence all of the alarms and sleep as late as I can.  Although they just scheduled my Nike training class on Sunday mornings.

Karl: So it sounds like you’re working seven days?

Roxy: Technically, yes, but I don’t really count the gym as working. I teach two classes on Saturday mornings but I’d be there anyway. And Sundays I teach just one at 11:00 a.m. so they let me sleep a little bit. But yeah, everyday I’m doing something. It’s hard to make plans with people because I sound like such a lunatic. Every night I’m either training a client or teaching a class. I’ve been trying to balance that a little better.

Karl: How late do you take clients?

Roxy: I train my last client  at 8:30.  I finish with him at 9:30, then we go out to Starbucks and have some tea and chit chat.  He really goes to the gym for the social aspect, he probably wouldn”t go otherwise.  It’s really sweet.  We sit there, have tea and kibitz.  So I don’t get home ’till 10/10:30 most nights and that’s when I have my dinner.  But I’m a night person so it doesn’t seem that late to me.

Karl: So being single, where do you like to go out?

Roxy: One of my favorites on Sunset is Cafe Med. It’s amazing. They do handmade pasta. It’s in Sunset Plaza across from Chin Chin and that little area there. There’s a secret parking lot behind it, well it’s not secret, just no one uses it.

Karl: Is it hard to get a table?

Roxy: No, not at all. That’s a place you really do not need a reservation. Most nights you can just walk in. The other place I love, where it’s harder to get a table, is Dominick’s on Beverly. Unbelievable! I tend toward Italian food since I’m half Italian.

Karl: They’re so nice there, at Dominick’s.

Roxy: Oh my God, they make rice balls, and Brooklyn is the only other place where anyone knows what a rice ball is. It’s amazing to me that it’s on their menu. I always start the meal with their rice balls. *sips drink* Hugo’s, where we are now. I love this place for breakfast and brunch. Although Sundays it’s really hard to get in for brunch. I wish they took reservations. And my new favorite, ’cause I used to go to the one on Cahuenga, is Kitchen 24.

Karl: And now we’ve got one.

Roxy: Yes, we’ve got one with a full bar! And it’s amazing. It gets a great happy hour. So after I teach my class, it’s become a new tradition on Saturday mornings. We go have coffee at Starbucks and by 3:00 we’re at Kitchen 24 having “Deep South Sippers.” We tried to recreate it on our own with some Jeremiah Weed and lemonade. It’s a really good drink.

Karl: Rejuvenating after a work out.

Roxy: *laughs* That’s why I workout, so I can eat and drink whatever I want. I’m not too much a food nazi. There’s room for a little bit of everything.

Karl: What brought you to West Hollywood?

Roxy: I’m from New York. After college I was going to go to grad school but was a little hesitant. My uncle from California just happened to be in town and he needed some help with his furniture business out here. We left it where I would come out for the Summer after graduation to help him out in the office ’cause he had three women that were pregnant and all due within two weeks of each other. The office was going to be desolate. So he sent me a ticket in my graduation card and I came out in June of 1995.

Karl: He sent a one way ticket from New York?

Roxy:  It wasn’t one way! *laughs*  I know, right?  It had an open return. We had an understanding that maybe three months later I would figure out where I wanted to be.  Obviously I never went back.  Within that three months of working in the office, they opened a new store and the General Manager at the time said, “You can sell.  We need you.  I need you to commit to a year.”  So they put me in Sales and I quickly rose through the ranks.

Karl: Was this your mom’s brother or your dad’s brother? Were your folks okay with this?

Roxy: My dad’s brother, and they were still in Brooklyn. They were just happy that I was working. I went away to school and I never really moved back home. I was home for a couple weeks and then came out to California.

Karl: Where did you go to school?

Roxy: Suny Albany… Upstate. I got a degree in Psychology. I was thinking about grad school for that, but not really sure I wanted to be a therapist or professor, because that’s for sure where I would’ve ended up. I don’t know if I’m a professor type. *laughs*

Karl: You’d be good at that.

Roxy: You think so? Some people think I should have my own religion.

Karl: So why Albany?

Roxy: When I was thirteen, I went to soccer camp in Cobleskill, which is a little farm college in the middle of nowhere, Suny Cobleskill.  At soccer camp, I met a boy and got a crush.  He lived in Guilderland which is just outside of Albany.  So when it came time to pick a college, I thought, “Well… You know… Albany has a good Psych program.”  I visited and loved the school, it was close enough to home but far enough.  Consequently, a lot of my friends ended up in Albany.  They said, “Oh yeah, I’ll go too.”  So there was a group of six or eight people who ended up in Albany because I had a crush on a boy in soccer camp.  I love New York, I never thought I’d leave, but as soon as I got to California…  I mean, my God… It’s gorgeous here.

Karl: It’s certainly addicting.

Roxy: Life is easier when you’re around money. I hate to say it, but obviously my uncle had a lot of money because he owned a furniture business and it was just an easier transition. I was able to work for him and I even lived with him and my aunt for a little bit, then I moved out to Newport Beach and had a beautiful apartment. It was amazing there except that everything closes at 9:00.

Karl: Yeah, it’s a difference pace down there. I haven’t gotten to try that LA life yet – the whole beach lifestyle.

Roxy: It’s so cool down there. It’s so rich, so different than LA. I think it’s a great place to raise a family. I was there for about a year and a half, but the minute I started working at the Los Angeles store on La Brea, I said, “Alright, I’m moving.” I think I moved within a month.

Karl: Yeah, that’s a horrible commute. That would be brutal.

Roxy: The two guys that were running the store lived in West Hollywood. So rather than driving home in the traffic, I would go to their house and hang out. They had a cute little bungalow in the Norma Triangle that was built in the 20s, authentic, really cute. I would hang out with them and their dogs and I got to see a glimpse of West Hollywood. I would walk to 24 Hour Fitness and get a work out in, then walk back to their house and leave. So I would drive back at 10/11 just to drive back in the morning. So I found a split-level studio on Palm Avenue and that was it. I moved really quickly.

Karl: And you’re a home owner now.

Roxy:  Yes.  I consider myself quite lucky.  I lived at the Villa Francisca on Palm and they kept raising my rent.  In 2002, I realized I could own a place for that kind of money.  A mortgage sounds so scary, but a mortgage for a couple hundred thousand dollars is only a thousand dollar payment, I had no idea.  I was already paying that in rent so I started looking for a condo.  I found this really cool real estate agent, local to West Hollywood… Shaun Seeram. *speaks directly into microphone and laughs*  I’ve referred a lot of people to him, he knows West Hollywood really well.  He’s a saint because at first I thought that I had no real requirements.  I’m from Brooklyn, I used to live on a busy street.  But I realized I was more picky than I initially thought I was when I started seeing all these apartments that I didn’t want.  But now I’m on West Knoll and I love it.

Karl: Yeah, it’s nice and tucked away. And you’re right there, right on the strip.

Roxy: Right on the strip. I love when Halloween rolls around and when Pride rolls around because literally I just walk to the corner and there’s the parade. But I can’t hear anything because I face the back so I think it’s the best of both worlds.

*Waiter delivers Papa’s Eggs and Desayuno Fuerte*

Karl: Oh man, that looks awesome.

Roxy: Oh my God, would you like some?

Karl: That’s ok, thank you. Enjoy. So, tell me how things here have changed?

Roxy: I think a lot more families have moved into West Hollywood. A lot more. And I can even speak from the gym population. When I first walked into that gym, it was all Boy’s Town working out there, but now that they’ve built a Kid’s Club, there are families everywhere. In my building, the older generation that had lived there has moved on in one way or another and families are moving in. But also young professionals. So West Hollywood is not losing it’s reputation as being open and gay friendly, but it’s welcoming the tapestry of all other cultures and ages that want to move in.

Karl: From what you’ve observed, do you think that these families are moving in, or that the veterans who have lived here are turning into families?

Roxy: I think a little of both, but I’m seeing straight families and I don’t think the original population of West Hollywood was all that. I feel like it used to be a lot of single people, gay men, and couples living here. Some of them have become families, but to me that doesn’t feel like the norm. I don’t know what our schools are like but I feel like they’re good because we’ve got such good tax money here. I used to drive by them and I feel like they’re good.

Karl: Our schools are terrible.

Roxy: Oh really?

Karl: *laughs* Yes. I know. It sucks.

Roxy: Where are you sending your kids?

Karl: We haven’t figured that out yet. It’s a shame. I hope that changes over time as the population of kids grows.

Roxy: Well, I feel like West Hollywood is a secret little city where we have more control over how things look, so it’s really nice and taken care of. I don’t know the demographics but I believe within The County of Los Angeles, we’re probably a more affluent city because we’re smaller and there are more men that live here. *laughs* It feels right. It’s quiet, and there’s so much here.

Karl: Has it always been that way? Was it this quiet when you moved here?

Roxy: Yes. When I moved here, it was one of the things that I noticed most. It was how the people here have such a sense of community and take care of the city. And I feel that’s still the same. The only thing that I feel has changed is younger people that are coming up are more open to the change in the tapestry. I don’t really know a lot of the older population, I only hope that they’re also open to it. There might be some people who don’t like the change, but I don’t know those people so I can’t speak for them. And I’m out in it quite a bit. *smile*

Karl: What are some of the things you’d like to see more of here?

Roxy: Hmmm… *Sips drink and goes quiet* That’s a hard one for me. They just built that library, I can’t say that they’re not putting money into the city.

Karl: Yeah, it’s awesome over there.

Roxy: The landscaping and everything is great, they do art installations in the middle of the street, and they let Kitchen 24 come in and be open 24 hours! The parking seems fine, although I walk everywhere. I think we could do a little bit more to publicize the West Hollywood Art District. They have those orange signs up La Cienega Blvd. that denote they are a part of… whatever it is… but I don’t think anybody knows what that thing is. It might be nice to open the Pacific Design Center for events, especially now that they’ve build the red building there. I’m hoping there are plans to have public events there.

Karl: Have you ever done the West Hollywood Art Walk?

Roxy: I have not. I have no idea when it is.

Karl: I’ll send you the website. It’s a lot of fun.

Roxy: See, that’s the thing, I live here and I have no idea when it is. That sounds like something I would probably do. It’s strange that’s it’s not a little more visible. Hey, I live here, send me a postcard, I’ll put it on my fridge.

Karl: How’s the dating scene? Do you date locally?

Roxy: I don’t date too much in West Hollywood but have recently started dating a little more. It’s not something that’s on my list of things to do but it’s been a recent endeavor for me and couple of my girlfriends to branch out of our West Hollywood scene. We hang out with the boys and we’ll go to the Abbey and we’ll go Here Lounge so it’s kind of nice to see what else is out there. Recently I went to the silent movie theater.

Karl: Oh, how is it? I’ve never been.

Roxy: It was really fun. What I went to was called “A Movie Interruption.”  It’s a group of comedians who sit in the front row with microphones and talk over whatever movie is playing. It’s hilarious. That was actually a date and it was really cute, I never would have thought of that on my own. I try to get out to Griffith Observatory or Huntington Gardens…

Karl: Escape the bubble?

Roxy: It is our little bubble. It’s a skewed vision inside the bubble because everyone is beautiful in this safe little enclave. But outside of our bubble, people are not as accepting, nor focused on fitness or fun.

Karl: Isn’t it funny how you leave LA and remember what America looks like?

Roxy: That’s actually frightening to me. I see my New York friends, we all started in the same place. I mean I’m 38, I’m not young. When I’m there, we mostly go out to dinner, drinks and maybe a movie. It’s cold and rainy and dirty. Yes, it effects your outlook, it effects your life, it effects everything. So yeah, coming back to the bubble is really refreshing. It’s like Never Never land or something. Mmmmmmm. *bites into lunch*

Karl: What would you like to see less of?

Roxy: I would change the crosswalks. We have kamikaze crosswalks here. The one by my house and the one in front of Starbucks, there’s no light there. You have the right of way but you have to wait for the cars to stop and I regularly almost get hit. There have been a couple times when I cross the street and I get a text from my friend saying, “Oh my God, I almost ran you over.”

Karl: Yeah, I saw a person get hit there one night.

Roxy: What we really need is a pedestrian crossing system, or you press a button and it becomes a stop light.

Karl: Like on Fairfax.

Roxy: Just like Fairfax, yes. It’s really dangerous and crazy cause Santa Monica Blvd. is essentially a freeway and people don’t stop. If I’m late for teaching my class, I don’t even stop, I run straight across the street. I’ve taken to glancing over to see if the light at La Cienega is green or red. ‘Cause if it’s green…

Karl: You’re going to be killed.

Roxy: I’ve thrown my water bottle at cars before. Cars have been close enough for me to tap them. I think it’s just a matter of time before something really bad happens. A few years ago there was an eighty something year old woman that got hit over by Pavilions. She was okay, but it’s ridiculous. I love the idea that you don’t need to wait for a light to cross, it’s great, but it’s really not safe. I’m not talking about building a pedestrian bridge or anything, but there’s a way to make it more safe. My client and I will sit at Starbucks and watch the cars rear end each other when people cross. One time I almost got run over by a Sheriff’s car. So if there’s anything, I feel the lights could be timed a little bit better. They’ve narrowed the street so much.

Karl: You’re referring to the grass median strip?

Roxy: Yeah, it’s a little ridiculous. Coming from Beverly Hills, you enter West Hollywood and you’re entering this little gridlock zone.

Karl: Well, on that note, describe West Hollywood in 20 years.

Roxy: I hope the trend of this live/work/play continues. They’ve had plans to build a big building on the corner across from Koo Koo Roo to do this retail slash condo complex thing.

Karl: The big dirt lot?

Roxy: Yes, the big lot. The project got put on hold I guess. So I hope the economy turns around and we see more of that. I’d like to see more affordable places to live I guess. I’ve helped people look for apartments, it’s expensive to live here. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not looking for low income, subsidized housing, but somewhere where the people that work in West Hollywood can live in West Hollywood. A lot of people commute to this city and it’s not the easiest city to get in and out of.

Karl: Well, they’re proposing a train to go through here.

Roxy: Where?

Karl: It will likely go down Wilshire I believe, or close to Santa Monica Blvd… Which would sky rocket your property. Villaraigosa gave some speech at Paramount yesterday to kick off the initiative. I understand the hold up is Beverly Hills not wanting a train going through there ’cause they’ll have to go under a school or something.

Roxy: Well, I look at the red line, and the blue line, and the gold line or whatever they built… These trains go nowhere. We spent so much money and no one uses them. If there was a train that went down La Cienega to the 405, and then a train that ran along the 405… I don’t understand why there isn’t one. Especially after they widened it and did all that construction. They easily could’ve put one in the middle. It’s so strange.

Karl: I imagine we’ll see that someday.

Roxy: It’s weird to me how California spends money. But I wish it were easier to live here for people that are single. Maybe that’s why more families live here – because you need the double income. It’s hard for a single person to live in West Hollywood, which is a shame because it’s so set up for single life.

Karl: How has the Sunset Strip changed? You were thinking of living up there ten years ago, right?

Roxy: I was. The Sunset Strip is really funny. I always tell my friends when they come to visit, “You walk up the hill if you’re straight, and you walk down the hill if you’re gay.” When I was first here there were a lot more grittier bars like Coconut Teasers. It was a different experience going out, more of a rave scene back then. Now, everything seems like this high end experience – the clubs, the social scene, the way people are dressing, all these super short dresses… One of my friends calls it, “Hollywood Barbie.” I don’t really go out there much but that could also just be my age showing.

Karl: Okay, how about the Santa Monica Strip then?

Roxy: I think when Micky’s remodeled after their fire, the strip got launched to a whole new level. I’m happy to see Revolver is back, it’s nothing like it used to be. I remember when it was this dark, gritty, hole-in-the-wall. Now it’s…

Karl: Vegas-ified?

Roxy: *laughs* Vegas-ified! It’s trendy and cool. You can say the same for most of the bars, there are very few that have remained. Mother Lode is still the same and true to their form. I remember the first time I ever walked the strip with the guys from my store. It was evening time and we waked by Rage and went in, and it was all these shirtless guys dancing with some random techno music playing… It’s a lot different now. It’s much more of an experience, much less of a meat market. And I’m friends with some go-go boys, they’re doing quite well.

Karl: Yeah, you probably train half of them.

Roxy: Mmm hmm. I’ve got a few in my class. They’re so cute.

Karl: How are your colleagues doing? Are they still here?

Roxy: They moved on. When the decision was made to transition my store to more traditional furniture, we all moved on. That’s when I left my uncle’s company and went on to do different things. One of the guys had a relative in Baltimore so they decided to leave. Last I heard they were still together and selling furniture there.

Karl: That must a bit of a transition… to Baltimore I mean.

Roxy: I have no idea what the scene is like as far as acceptance. It’s tough, there are very few places in the world like this where you can just be who you are and not have to worry. When my friends and I are out anywhere else, you quickly become aware that not everybody is so accepting. And it’s so weird because it’s not part of my reality. If I have friends that want to come see me, I tell them, “If you’re not accepting and not comfortable, don’t come here. It’s not your place. Every other place is your place.” *munches on lunch* I’m protective of my boys. *laughs* There was someone that I met along the way after a happy hour. We were walking to the Abbey to see my friend dance. I said, “Hey, come with us, we’re heading to the Abbey,” and we were flirting and getting to know each other. Of course, they always pretend to be cool with it. We get there and he sees the atmosphere and sees me putting money down my friend’s pants and het gets weird and jealous.

Karl: Is your dancer-friend straight?

Roxy: Oh this guy clearly isn’t straight. You know, blue eye-shadow, body make-up, rocking’ body… I can attest to that, he takes my classes.

Karl: *laughs*

Roxy: He took me outside and said, “Hey, I really wanted to hang out with you.” And I said, “Hey, I invited you to come along with me, this is not a date, we’re just hanging out with my friends and if you’re not comfortable, I get that but I need to go back inside now.” The guys always pretend to be ok with it but then they think that they’re going to take you away from it. But I live here. This is where everything I love is. This was just another recent occurrence that reminds me of why I don’t date much.

Karl: How has our crime been? Pretty consistent?

Roxy: Yeah. I haven’t noticed a change one way or the other. I’ve always felt that this is a safe spot. There was that weird guy that was setting things on fire.

Karl: That was exciting, huh? At New Year’s?

Roxy: Yes, that was strange. I remember the groups that would come through and do some gay bashing. That was scary.

Karl: When did that happen?

Roxy: I feel like that was five, or seven years ago… People coming through here and beating people up.

Karl: I’m always impressed there aren’t more problems at Halloween with half a million people here. It’s amazing we don’t all destroy the place.

Roxy: It’s impressive how the city is so set up for that. Hey, West Hollywood can throw a party. They’re really good at directing traffic in and around here, explaining what’s going on before it happens. And the place is spotless the next day, you’d never know what had just happened.

Karl: Do you have any crazy stories to share, anything funny that has happened while living here?

Roxy: Well, there’s the time I was pushed down a hill in a shopping cart by a midget. *laughs*

Karl: Did you pay for that?

Roxy: *laughs* No, I did not.

Karl: You sound pretty happy here. You’re not going anywhere are you?

Roxy: No. This is the city. This is where I want to live.

“The Lawyer”
Anthony D. Ross, Attorney
10″ wide x 8″ high
Hand-cut vellum
_____________________________

Karl: *futzing with iPhone 3s* Are you an Apple fan?

Tony: Big time.

Karl: Crazy stuff going on now, huh?

Tony: Yes, I was watching the live feed of the announcement on Wednesday and I thought it ended really weird. I’m wondering if there’s a relationship between what happened and why it ended the way it did. They must’ve known at the top that he was that sick. And normally they build up to something really amazing, but they had the really slow build and then it just fizzled.

Karl: I was hoping for the 5. I’ve been holding out, I’m on the 3s.

Tony: I’m in the same boat as you.

Karl: Now I don’t know what to do. Should we go for it or wait it out?

Tony: I think we have to. Mine is getting a little buggy, plus I want a new one. I wanted the 4 but you have to wait that 2-year period. We’re always in the off-period.

Karl: Right! I’m eligible now.

Tony: I know, I was excited because I thought 5 would happen now and then I’d be right in sync, but now I’m screwed. I think I’ll have to do it though.

Karl: *groans* Ugh… I know… me too.

Okay, so today is October 6th, 2011, and I’m here at Basix with Anthony D. Ross, Attorney.

Tony: Yes, Tony is what people know me as, but Anthony is my given name… And apparently my name as an attorney. *laughs*

Karl: How old are you?

Tony: I’m in my mid forties.

Karl: Your current relationship status?

Tony: *pauses and smiles* Unsure.

Karl: Undecided? Complicated?

Tony: No, it’s not complicated, it’s just new.

Karl: Ah… Well good. Congrats. *laughs*

Tony: Thank you.

Karl: Tell me about your occupation.

Tony: I’m now an attorney. I’ve only been practicing for about a year. This is now chapter 3, maybe 4 in my life.

Karl: Yes, from what I saw online, you’ve had a number of successful careers.

Tony: I keep busy.

*Waiter takes orders*

Karl: What’s your typical day like at work now days?

Tony: I usually get up and exchange emails with clients and opposing counsel, get all the communication stuff out in the morning, then spend the afternoon and evening researching and writing.

Karl: Typical lawyer hours?

Tony: Maybe not as bad as some others. I work from home generally, unless I’m in court or have to go see someone. So I take a long lunch generally, go to the gym, go to Runyon Canyon, then come back and hit work again.

Karl: Good. I know in LA practicing law can be all-encompassing.

Tony: It can be, yes. But since I don’t have a commute, that helps cut down a lot of the time.

Karl: Where are you by the way?

Tony: I’m in West Hollywood, near La Brea.

Karl: Oh nice, it’s great over there. How about your free-time? You hike?

Tony: I hike at Runyon Canyon. I’m also a martial artist, I train usually on the weekends. I like to lift weights, I’m in the gym 4 or 5 times a week. And a little bit of dating.

Karl: Am I stealing your workout today?

Tony: *laughs* No, today I was going to have a day off. Tomorrow I’m back in there.

Karl: What martial arts do you study?

Tony: I do taekwondo now, but I’ve also studied jiu jitsu, Thai kick-boxing, kajukenbo.

Karl: Would you like to plug a martial arts gym?

Tony: No, it closed.

Karl: Awwww, bummer!

Tony: I started martial arts in Hollywood and continued it for 5-years while I was gone. I’ve now been back in LA for 6-months and one of my first stops was my old gym. But they’d closed, it was so sad. But, what’s cool about West Hollywood is that the black belts from my school train on Sundays in Plummer Park. It’s every Sunday at 10:00 a.m., no fee, everybody just goes and it’s all about spreading our old school.

Karl: There are a lot of organizations like that here, aren’t there? Some of my best friends are fire dancers who run their free classes out of Griffith Park.

Tony: That’s one of the reasons I wanted to move back, I had forgotten how much energy, and different energy, West Hollywood and LA have. It’s so nice to be back and be able to go to the gym with one group of friends, do martial arts with another group of friends, and practice law with another group of friends. It’s such a great place for having that kind of connection with people.

Karl: Who do you hike with?

Tony: Most often myself. I think maybe from being a New Yorker, I do my best thinking when I’m walking. Because LA is LA, there aren’t that many opportunities to walk. I live really close to Runyon so it’s a good hour to an hour and a half of just me being in my own head. I get to solve a lot of the legal questions that I have in my mind.

Karl: You must be in sick shape – hiking, martial arts, hitting the gym 5 times a week.

Tony: *laughs* I do ok.

Karl: Good for you.

So you were in LA for a while, you moved away, and now you’re back.

Tony: I really didn’t announce that I was going, it was just time for a change. I always intended that my final career chapter was going to be practicing law. I was ready to do that so I moved up north to Berkeley because I knew I needed to take the bar. I graduated from law school 15 or 16-years ago now so I really just had to retool my way of thinking and reconnect those synapses. So I took the bar, worked for two law firms up there, and came back.

Karl: What brought you out to LA originally?

Tony: To open Here Lounge. I was working at g Lounge in New York with my former business partners there, and the idea was to come out to California to open a night club, which we did.

Karl: Are you still involved?

Tony: Not at all.

Karl: That must be a relief.

Tony: Is it. I get to sleep. I still have to work a lot, but at least I don’t have to work ’till 2 in the morning, and I don’t work weekends. In the night club business it was 7-days a week, all the time.

Karl: Describe what that lifestyle is like. I imagine there a ton of people here who dream of doing something like that but can’t attain it, so what’s it really like?

Tony: Well, everything always looks more glamorous on the outside than it really is. I enjoyed it. It was fun. It was a lot of energy but it required a lot of energy. For some people that works, and for me it worked for a while. I have a lot of energy, I’m very social, being out every night surrounded by hundreds of people was common for me. I was a night club person in New York City and I worked in clubs growing up – so it’s fun from that perspective. But it’s 7-days a week and is a cash business, so you always have to be watching the store. I was also the general manager as well as the owner, so there was hiring, ordering, customer relations, inventory, all sorts of things that have to happen everyday behind the scenes before the doors open for the evening. It’s very busy, very time-consuming, can be incredibly rewarding, but it takes a lot out of you.

Karl: I would think the security alone is insane. There’s just so much liability.

Tony: Particularly here. In New York we always had to have security, but here Anna Nicole Smith used to come in, Hugh Hefner… When you have people like that coming in, security is a much larger issue.

Karl: Is it still doing well? It’s always packed over there.

Tony: As far as I know, yes. The Abbey does a lot of that on its own, Here was always the little step sister in comparison.

Karl: So you decide you’re done with the club scene and you move up north… How long were you in Berkeley?

Tony: I was there for 5-years… In order to switch gears. Everyone knew me here as a night-club person, but I needed to become a lawyer. So I worked for a couple law firms and learned the business of litigation – how to read cases and practice law. I took the bar and decided it was time to return to my West Coast home which really is Los Angeles.

Karl: Are there any differences that jump out at you now compared to when you first moved here originally?

Tony: Everybody looks older, as do I. The nightclub and restaurant scene has changed a bit. The downtown restaurant scene is crazy! That didn’t exist when I was here last. It’s incredible to see such well known foodies opening restaurants in downtown.

Karl: It really has, huh? It’s dramatic.

Tony: And the food trucks… Food trucks to me are my secret passion. I love those!

Karl: Everybody does, they’re such a hit.

Tony: It’s such a great niche. It’s such a great way to improvise given the economy. Most of those people, or at least a lot of them are legitimate chefs who, given the economy, couldn’t afford to work for almost nothing at a restaurant or open their own. So the food truck is a good way to still get to cook for people with a lot less overhead and get your name out there. It’s impressive. I see it as a stepping stone to becoming restauranteurs again. Those same people, once their name is as established as their good food, and the economy can accommodate again, a lot of those people will be well-primed to open their own brick and mortar restaurant.

Karl: Have you noticed any major changes in the patrons as well as the businesses?

Tony: Kind of the opposite of what I said a few minutes ago, they’re younger. I guess that’s to be expected and is how the night-life industry grows – it gains younger and new affiliates, and those guys and girls are all happy to go out. There’s a changing of the guard with every generation so it’s good to see young people out. I think there’s not as much of a focus on homogenizing in the gay scene anymore. Men and women, straight and gay, young and old get to go out together now. Within the confines of West Hollywood it’s still a younger skew, but once you start doing Silverlake and Hollywood it seems less about that and more about inclusiveness. I think it’s great. Even at Here Lounge, we were always ahead of the curve in terms of having women’s nights, straight nights, in what was traditionally considered a gay establishment.

Karl: Has Weho changed for the better or for the worse?

Tony: I would think for the better. The West Hollywood City Council has always been very forward thinking and it seems like they’re still doing that. This city has done a great job in attracting different types of businesses and different types of people all within a two-mile radius or so.

Karl: Would you advise opening a business here or downtown these days?

Tony: It depends on what your business is.

*Waiter refills coffee*

Karl: They’re shoveling so much money into downtown these days, it makes me wonder if it’s a more economical place to open a business.

Tony: There’s a good chance of that. If I were opening a restaurant, I might say downtown. In terms of my business… I’m considering opening up a brick and mortar office, and in my case I would do it in West Hollywood. It’s centrally located, on the West Side anyway. People know where it is. It’s easy to get to. So I would do that.

Karl: Are you taking steps to do that?

Tony: I’m investigating it.

Karl: Is the city being helpful that way?

Tony: Not yet. You know the legal industry is changing and working from home, given the tools lawyers have now through technology that they didn’t have 10-years ago, a lot can be done without the overhead of an office. It saves your clients money because you don’t have to bill them for all your overhead. Attorney’s fees are not cheap, and I can undercut attorneys that have a lot of overhead.

Karl: How would you describe our attitude here in West Hollywood?

Tony: The thing that stood out to me the most when I moved to LA the first time, and it’s hit me again since I’ve come back, is the pace is much slower than anyplace else that I know. Now, I’m sure that maybe in Florida or Alabama it might be slower, but in terms of New York, or even Berkeley and Northern California, things move at a leisurely pace relatively speaking here. I think the weather facilitates that. Like I said, I take hikes at Runyon Canyon during the day because it’s there and because it’s a beautiful day. I suspect a lot of other people do the same thing with their work day. So it takes a little longer to get some things done, but I also find that works to my advantage because I can snap into New York mode whenever I want and run circles around everybody.

Karl: New York can get to be such a grind. It really wears on you and takes years off your life.

Tony: It does, it really does. I don’t think I could move back. I used to say to people, “Everything that you think is simple in life – your daily routine, is a hassle in New York City.” Just going to the Post Office, the tiny little isles in the super-market, going to the bank, you get hit with lines and people with attitude behind the counter. You get jostled by so many people just walking down the street. Yeah, it’s nice here, everything’s bigger, wider and way slower.

Karl: Except you’re dealing with the cars.

Tony: Yes. Although I will say that I have always loved to drive, so for me, it doesn’t bother me. I don’t have to deal with traffic most days.

Karl: That’s awesome because most New Yorkers come here and that’s what they hate. They say, “God, I haven’t owned a car in forever and now I gotta deal with this…” So this ‘is’ the town for you I guess. *laughs*

Tony: It is.

Karl: What would you like to see more of here?

Tony: I could answer that question so many different ways.

Karl: Go anywhere you want with it.

Tony: More opportunity, I mean for everybody. The economy’s in such a weird spot. I happen to be a little bit of a political junkie and I’ve noticed for years a kind of attrition of possibilities and opportunities for people who aren’t wealthy. When I grew up, it was much more of the American dream in that if you went to school and worked hard, you would have a really good chance of making a comfortable life for yourself. No one says you’re going to be a millionaire, but you had a pretty good chance of making a comfortable life for yourself and your family.  As I’ve grown older, I’ve watched that become a rarity now. People try so hard but the opportunities are just dwindling around them. People are getting frustrated. I’d love to see more opportunity for people.

Karl: Yeah, you can see the recession in a lot of places, but I don’t know if it’s as visible on the surface here as much as it is elsewhere. Even though it’s there.

Tony: No, you’re right. People here hide in their nice cars and gated communities. There’s no equalizer here like the New York subway. In New York, people are forced to confront some uncomfortableness on a regular basis. Out here. you don’t necessarily have to.  I’ve decided that Runyon is somewhat like that. Not that you have to confront any uncomfortableness, but it does give you an interesting cross-section of LA. It’s a free park. A lot of people hike it – wealthy, not wealthy. It clearly might take some people longer to get to it, but it’s open and I’ve seen different types of people going up and down that mountain. From people who are clearly not wealthy to big time celebrities, they’re all doing the same thing in the same space.

Karl: That’s great, because I miss that aspect of New York here – riding the subway and bumping up against everybody. People’s intimate space here is so distant.

*Waiter sets the largest pancakes on Earth in front of Tony*

Tony: Jesus, that’s big.

Karl: Here, concerts and sporting events are where you sort of see your neighbors…

Tony: But even then it’s only until the lights do down. At Runyon I’ve seen Gene Simmons, and I’ve seen people collecting cans.

Karl: Man… those are some amazing pancakes.

Tony: I know, there’s no way I can eat all this.

Karl: Do you like Hugo’s too, down the street?

Tony: Yeah! Don’t they have pumpkin pancakes or something like that?

Karl: Yes, they’re incredible. My daughter loves them.

Tony: That’s the other thing about moving back – I’ve been rediscovering places that I had forgotten about.

Karl: What have you rediscovered?

Tony: Off Vine, which I have always loved. It’s in Hollywood.

Karl: I’ve heard a lot about that place.

Tony: Or, I don’t know if you’ve been to it but Geoffrey’s in Malibu, I just love that place.

Karl: No, I haven’t.

Tony: Oh, it’s such a great place.

Karl: Can you bring kids?

Tony: Uh huh. *chews pancakes* There was a woman in there with her dog over the weekend.

Karl: What are some things you’d like to see less of?

Tony: Auto-tune.

Karl: Yeah? You’re referring to the soundtrack playing behind us?

Tony: I happen to hate that. I love music. It’s one of the reasons I love the night-club business. And now I’m listening to all this music where people aren’t really singing, they’re all using computer generated voices. It seems wrong to me.

Karl: Yeah, our music is just falling apart, I know I age myself by saying that but it’s gotten so bad.

Tony: I also wish there were more left turn signals in LA. That’s been one of my pet peeves. When I moved up north, I realized that I’m not crazy. They do it, there are lots of them. But in LA you wait forever at a light.

Karl: Have people been really attracted to you as a lawyer because of your background? Coming back here as a previous owner has got to be…

Tony: It’s been helpful. The restaurant/night club business changes all the time so there’s always a learning curve on some level. But to understand the business, when I talk to clients and potential clients, it gives them a level of comfort that I know what I’m talking about. I’ve done it, I’ve been on the inside of a club. I know how hard it is to generate customer base, or make sure you comply with whatever the local zoning or licensing laws are, hiring your staff, deciding what type of entertainment and who the good DJs are. It takes time to learn those things so clients do appreciate that I can speak their language.

Karl: Is your name exchanged throughout West Hollywood as the club lawyer to go to? Or is it all over LA too? What’s your level of celebritydome I guess is what I’m asking, if you want to call it that?

Tony: I’m known in West Hollywood for sure and Hollywood. Beyond that, no, most people don’t know my name and many people are just learning that I’m a lawyer. I’d like to make a name doing criminal law as well. I enjoy the restaurant and night club stuff but there’s a connection that I didn’t realize at first in DUI defense – which is related to going out. In criminal law in Los Angeles right now, there are a lot of people who could use better representation and I enjoy doing that. So I’d like to spend more time in court doing criminal law.

Karl: What a market to be an expert in LA.

Tony: It’s true. So I’ve started doing a little of that and researching and talking to some criminal law attorneys. I’m finding it fascinating.

Karl: Describe West Hollywood in another 10 to 20-years from now.

Tony: That’s a good question. I’m not sure. My take from moving away and coming back is that a lot hasn’t changed, at least physically. I think that we’ll see more equality for gays and lesbians and transgender people. That arc is pretty clear.

Karl: It’s inevitable at this point.

Tony: West Hollywood will always be a very secure place for newly married gay couples and transgender couples.

Karl: Do you see the homogenization you were mentioning earlier increasing or becoming more polarized?

Tony: I don’t think so. I think it will become less polarized. West Hollywood itself, even though it has the reputation of being a gay neighborhood, is very inclusive. It’s full of what would be considered traditional families, and I don’t see that changing. I don’t see those people moving out. I think a lot of those people purposefully live here because they want to expose their family to that kind of diversity. I see that happening more, not less. Look at Gay Pride celebrations, which I think are a great marker for the community. Now days, whether they’re straight or gay, parents bring their children to expose them to the diversity that’s happening around them. I think it’s beautiful.

Karl: Yes, my kids aren’t even phased by their friends who have 2 moms or 2 dads. It’s all they’ve known so it’s the norm.

So here I would ask if you’re happy here, but it sounds like you are.

Tony: Very.

Karl: The transition has been an easy one?

Tony: I wouldn’t say easy because it’s a grind to constantly have to develop clients as well as a network of attorneys to work with, especially because I’m switching careers. So it’s not easy, but it’s totally satisfying. It’s challenging and I love a challenge.

Karl: How’s it going up north in regards to jobs, and people’s attitudes and morale?

Tony: It’s similar to here. I think the difference is that more people are inclined to speak out, at least louder and quicker. I have some clients up north and they’re much more politically aware than people seem to be here.

Karl: People tend to be pretty nonchalant down here when it comes to politics.

Tony: Well, that’s because the entertainment business, whether that’s people who work in the entertainment business or people who want to work in the entertainment business, they feel insulated from politics. People generally always want to go to the movies, always want to read a good book, so to some degree people in LA tend to take it for granted a little bit more.

Karl: So you’ve got to have some crazy stories that you can share about your history here.

Tony: Well, I was always scared whenever Anna Nicole Smith would come to the bar. I was always nervous. She was a big celebrity at the time. I also recognized that she had enough money that it didn’t really matter to her if she ruined anything. And that’s a dangerous predicament. She never did. She was always, you know, herself in the club. There was always a high level of energy all around her, but she never melted down. At least not in my club. But that was a scary experience – just knowing she’s showing up and wondering what could happen.

We had an incident where a well-known rapper came to perform one evening, and another well-known rapper who had a beef with that rapper knew that he was coming to perform. He camped out across the street waiting for him to come out so they could have an altercation.

Karl: Right up here? *points up the street*

Tony: We had to call the police, had to sneak him out the back door, the whole nine. That was a scary experience. But I remember having the latest winners from “American Idle” come to sing back when that show was new. That was exciting, seeing the energy of young people just starting their careers, coming to a club, and seeing that energy radiate to the crowd. It was exciting.

Karl: How about the dating scene? Have you met any real doozies?

Tony: I will say that I kind of stopped dating for a number of years and the night club facilitated that. It became an uncomfortable experience where I couldn’t tell if someone was talking to me because they were interested in talking to me or if they wanted to get into a party for free or didn’t want to buy drinks. So I essentially shut down dating for about 7-years and just went off the grid.  I only just started dating again within the last 6-months.

Karl: What kind of diet are you on, do you eat a lot?

Tony: I don’t eat a lot. It depends on how hard I’m working out, but generally speaking, I don’t eat a lot. Not a lot of red meat, maybe once every couple of weeks. Mostly I do chicken and turkey. If I can get away with it once or twice a week, I’ll even have a meal with no meat.

Karl: It sounds like the fitness thing is not just a hobby for you but an entire lifestyle.

Tony: Totally. I find that I think better and I’m more confident if I’m working out. Who knows how much of life really just happens in your mind? In martial arts for example, there’s a lot of balancing. And if you’re sparring, you’re not sure what’s going to happen next and there are a lot of adjustments that are made in split seconds. I believe that all those little things keep you young, they keep your mind constantly working. Your blood vessels, your muscles, all those things are constantly trying to figure out what’s going to happen to you that day and as long as you can keep adding that kind of change to life, i think it keeps you vibrant and healthy. It’s when everything is really stagnant and you sit in the same chair for 8-hours a day and then go home and watch TV for another 4-hours a day, your body’s not really doing anything. I love to just make everything move all the time.

Karl: That’s really beautiful, what you just said. *laughs* It’s really philosophical. It’s true.

Tony: That’s why babies are so amazing to watch. They’re constantly in awe. They see something they’ve never seen every single day. You see that spark they get when they make the connection, “Oh, if I do that, that happens.” That’s golden. You can do that your whole life if you don’t get jaded and say, “Oh life’s always going to be the same everyday.” I don’t think it ever has to be.

Lacey
10″ wide x 8″ high
Hand-cut vellum
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Karl: Okay, what’s today, the 8th? It’s July 8th, 2011, and we’re here at Hudson on the corner of Santa Monica and Crescent Heights in West Hollywood, CA. I’m here with Lacey.

Lacey: God, iPhones do everything!

Karl: How old are you, Lacey?

Lacey: 31.

Karl: You’re currently married.

Lacey: To Jeff.

Karl: How long have you been married?

Lacey: It’ll be 6 years in October.

Karl: Describe him for me.

Lacey: Oh, I don’t know. Jeff is the life of the party. He’s one of the funniest, sweetest, chillest people I’ve ever met – who is also insanely hyper.

Karl: How did you meet?

Lacey: He dated my best friend in college. She and I moved out here together and he moved out here to be with her. He lived a couple blocks from where we lived in the Valley, but they broke up and she and I grew apart.  He and I didn’t know anybody else so we were hanging out with each other all the time. It turned into one of those things where we were friends for a couple of years, then we got closer and closer and I don’t know… The next thing I knew I was moving in with the guy. *laughs*

Karl: Where are you from originally?

Lacey: I’m from Texas – I grew up in Houston. He’s from Virginia. We met in Pittsburgh where we both went to college.

Karl: So what’s your occupation?

Lacey: I am a caterer, I guess. A chef. I cook. I started my own catering company 6 years ago around the time that I quit acting. I started as a personal chef, then I was catering friends’ movies, and doing craft services. It was going really well and I actually, sometimes, regret doing what I did because I stopped taking jobs in order to go to culinary school. I thought I needed more knowledge and the basics, but I just lost all that momentum in the few years that I was in culinary school. I had such a good thing going and then all of a sudden I got out of school and… No job! I kind of screwed the pooch on that one.

Karl: Well, did you learn things that you absolutely need to know?

Lacey: I know I did. It has just made the road a little longer and a little harder. I ended up working at the West Side Tavern right when it opened up, over on Westwood and Pico. I was a line cook which was cool. I had never worked in a restaurant on that end. As an actor, I had always worked in the front of the house bar-tending or waiting tables. They took a chance on me. I didn’t have any line cook experience and you gotta be fast. And as a chick you have to be so tough. It’s predominantly men and it was a huge kitchen. I would say there were 15 people working on the line at once and I was the only girl. All the other girls worked in the pastry part. I enjoyed it but it was so little pay, you work so hard, and it was so taxing.

Karl: Well, being a young actor is no picnic either. What was it about acting that pushed you into culinary school?

Lacey: It was actually my mom’s idea. I just got so fed up with not working, working odd jobs, and not making any money. I wanted a career. So my mom called me. She was so cute. She said, “I just read this article about this woman who is a personal chef. Have you ever heard of these? I think you could do that! You love entertaining, and you love cooking.” And I thought, “That actually is not a bad idea.”

Karl: So describe what it’s like to start a business in LA?

Lacey: It’s been really difficult. I thought I had this ‘in’ with people who work in production – my husband and I have friends in entertainment. I could do on-set catering because I A – was aware of how munch money there is in it, and B – have worked in the industry as an actor. I know what kind of crap they serve you on film sets. I was hoping I could change the face of that for people. It’s worked a little bit. My husband and other people have gotten me hired on sets.

Karl: Well, I would think that there is so much business here, but it’s probably also a very saturated market.

Lacey: It is and it isn’t. My bonus is that my husband works in reality TV. A lot of reality shows are low-budget and they don’t have set caterers that they work through. They tend to just send a Production Assistant out to grab lunch somewhere. So it was interesting to get into that market. I did a couple of pilots and shows here and there. Apparently a food truck is the way to go if you’re going to be catering on set.

Karl: Yeah, that’s really hot right now, isn’t it?

Lacey: Yes, and if it’s a series, or a show that’s been running for a long time on location, or if they’re moving around, they need somebody that can show up with a menu of things and can cook right there. I looked into it. It’s so expensive to get a food truck. You have to pay for the damn truck, have $1,000 a month to store it somewhere in a commissary, then you have to think of your food and your gas and all this stuff. I don’t know. Hopefully I’ll get there someday. Or I’ll just veer out of that and try to get into weddings or something.

Karl: What do you do on set without a truck, you set it all up, everyone eats, and then you come get your stuff?

Lacey: Yeah, exactly. It’s just hard right now because I’m a one-man-band. I’ll bring in friends here and there to help me, but if I’m catering a job, I’m working 18 hours a day. I’m by myself doing all the shopping, prepping, cooking, delivering… *feigns exhaustion* I really do enjoy it so I hope business will pick up soon.

Karl: So clearly your business is all-enveloping, but what do you like to do outside of work in your free time.

Lacey: That’s such a hard question.

Karl: I know. Nobody has free time anymore.

Lacey: I like running, yoga… I really enjoy writing.

Karl: What do you write?

Lacey: I used to be more creative with my writing. I used to write stories and plays, but that was when I was back in that acting world. I think I had a bigger imagination then because I was exercising it all the time. I have a food blog that I do – Lulu Bites. It’s about recipes, food, or whatever having to do with my business. There are days that I think of forgoing the cooking and becoming a food writer, ala Anthony Bourdain. *laughs* He and I are both assholes, why not? I used to chain smoke and do a lot of drugs, I could fit in there. I just started gardening. One day, if I have my own kitchen established somewhere, I hope to have my own garden where I grow all of my own produce.

Karl: In your back yard?

Lacey: Yes. Now it’s huge! It all has to be above the ground because we have an arch-enemy – a squirrel, whose name is Mr. Goggles. He hasn’t tried to mess with anything yet, but I know if I planted anything in the ground, he would be all over it. But now it’s all fenced in out of Mr. Goggles’ reach.

Karl: What do you and Jeff like to do together?

Lacey: It’s hard to say, he hasn’t been home – he’s been traveling so much this past year for work. But we’re big home-bodies. We sit at home and play video games together, or watch useless TV, or movies. We’re really big music fans. Live music is something we really enjoy doing together.

Karl: No kidding. Where do you guys go to hear live music?

Lacey: It’s unfortunate, we don’t get to go that often, or maybe we’re just a bit too picky. It used to be the Elray, the Avalon, the Roxy – that tiny little place. But now it’s like everyone only plays the House of Blues, and I hate the House of Blues. I like it because it’s within walking distance of our house, but we call it the House of Rules. They’re lame, there are so many cooler, unique venues like Music Box, or there was a place that just closed – Crash Mansion, downtown.

Karl: So you’re a college student in Pittsburgh, did you just say, “Okay, I’ve graduated, I’m off to LA!”

Lacey: My college, CMU, had leagues as it was called. They do one in New York and one in LA. It’s a showcase for agents, managers, and directors… anybody that would be interested in new talent. I had been acting since I was 10. I was going to go to New York; the stage was what I had done my whole life. Living in Pittsburgh, we weren’t far from New York. I had been there a ton of times. I loved being there. I loved visiting there. But when we went there for our presentation, I freaked out. But when I came out here, I did way better in my presentation. In New York, I think I got 4 calls. And there were people who got 100. But I did way better out here. Being from Houston, which is so spread out, I remember driving around here and this felt like home. It felt familiar to me.

When Jeff’s ex and I moved out here together, we rented a car and were driving all over looking at places we might want to live. We wanted a house because my sister was going to move out here too, and she refused to be in an apartment building. We only had a tiny little budget and I knew there was no way we were going to find what we wanted. But on the second day, we were driving down Curson in West Hollywood and I was looking around at the houses… the buildings… the architecture… the trees… and I said, “I want to live here! I want to live on this street! Where are we? Is this Hollywood? Is this West Hollywood? This is so cute!” When we moved, the first place we looked at was in that area – it was $1400 for two bedrooms, two bathrooms and a yard. I thought to myself, “This is way to weird.” The second we walked into that place, I said, “We have to take it! Gotta take it!”

Karl: How long have you been there?

Lacey: It will be 8 years in October. Come October, it will be the longest I’ve lived in any place, period – including the houses I grew up in. It’s very adult-feeling. *laughs*

Karl: So looking at those 8-years, can you think about how things were when you moved here, and tell me about some of the changes you’ve observed?

Lacey: Well we live in Little Russia. Our landlord upstairs is adorable, he’s straight off the breadline.

Karl: How do you get along with him?

Lacey: We love them. His wife was always very reserved but I consider him my second father. I was sick one time and Jeff was out of town, he came down and brought a thermometer saying, “Are you sick? Do I need to take your temperature? Do you have a fever? Do you need to go to the hospital? Here’s all these Russian remedies that my mother used to do to me.” When Jeff was out of town working for a long time, they made me borscht and brought it down. They’re so cute. Now, even she’s finally loosening up and saying hi.

When we first moved in, it was a lot of elderly people. We called them the “Nostrovia Contingency” because they all speak very loudly and passionately. They’re saying hello to each other and it’s like, “Hello!” *yelling* “How are you?!” Recently, I’m noticing a younger crowd in our area. I don’t know if the elderly are passing away, or moving away ’cause times got tougher.

Karl: Are the rents going up? It’s all rent controlled, right?

Lacey: Where we live, it’s rent controlled. Our place was $1400 when we moved in, now it’s almost $1650. Over 8 years, that’s not too bad. Our property is owned entirely by our landlord who bought it 30-some odd years ago. It was originally just our little duplex – we live on the bottom, our landlord lives on top. So there was this huge front yard. My landlord’s father-in-law build a little 2-bedroom house on the front yard. I think it’s 1.5 bath, washer and dryer, dishwasher, whatever… it’s bigger than our place. If Jeff and I were to have kids, we would love to move into that place. But he’s never going to move because he lives there by himself and pays $1200.

Karl: Yeah, that guy’s not going anywhere.

Lacey: He’s lived there 14 or 15 years now. He’s a really sweet guy, we’re good friends with him. But we’re always thinking, *smacks fist* “When can we muscle you out?” *laughs*

Karl: Maybe your landlord can make some calls and have him “taken care of.”

Lacey: So that’s one thing that has not changed, that guy’s always been there and always will be.

The Santa Monica strip used to be Russian pharmacy, Russian pharmacy, Russian books and videos, Russian market… They would all just be in a row together and everything’s written in Russian. There’s a couple of little markets right around the corner from my house that I’ve never even walked into because I’m so intimidated by them. I don’t want to say “fortunately those started disappearing,” because I’m sure for the people who shop there, they’re thrilled that it’s there, but I don’t need four Russian pharmacies next door to each other. So those places have been disappearing and we’re getting more places like this – the Hudson or Bar Lubitsch which is a Russian vodka bar. There are hipper things around which Jeff and I appreciate.

Waitress: Can I get you anything?

Karl: Um, let’s go with the calamari, the sliders, and the fries.

Lacey: Another Sauvignon Blanc.

Karl: So how do you feel about those changes? You sound pretty happy about them. You’d rather see the bars and restaurants come in than keeping the local Russian pharmacies and things?

Lacey: Yeah. It’s just nice to have stuff like that around here because there wasn’t for so long. Little bistros and clothing stores popping up on the street – I’m all about mom and pop stores but I’m not going to go into the little Russian boutique.

Karl: You don’t need any Russian medical supplies?

Lacey: *laughs* There’s one right down the street from us that sells clothes, dolls, china, and medical supplies. C’mon, what is going on in there? I swear a lot of those places are just fronts… And I’m not trying to mess with that at all! *speaks directly into microphone*

Karl: Have things changed for the better or for the worst?

Lacey: I personally think for the better.

Karl: Wonder if the old Russians think so. *smiles*

*food arrives*

Okay, you can tell me how these hold up. Don’t feel obligated to eat, but please dig in.

Lacey: *laughs* I’m definitely going to have a bite. I don’t eat meat, so I’m not going to rock the sliders.

Karl: Ugh, sorry. They’re chicken though if you do poultry.

Lacey: I don’t.

Karl: Nothing with a face?

Lacey: I eat seafood occasionally. I believe the technical term is a pescetarian. I’ll cook meat though. I cater to meat-eaters, but anything I make can also be made vegetarian.

Karl: Can you do the gluten-free?

Lacey: Of course. My step-dad has coeliac disease.

*bites into calamari*

I don’t know if you really want me to… I don’t think people want me to go out with them and critique things.

Karl: *chewing* Because you wreck it?

Lacey: I wreck it for myself too, it sucks. Although I should have two bites to be fair.

Karl: Well, as a regular eater, let me say… The calamari is good, I mean the outside fry. The inside is a little stiff maybe. It could be a little chewier.

Lacey: It’s way over-cooked. That’s exactly what I was going to say. The fry is nice, excellent flavoring, seasoned well, but damn. Yeah. And that’s the easiest thing to do with seafood – is overcook it because it’s so hard to tell when it’s done. I mean look at that plate, it’s perfectly golden, maybe even a little under-golden. Which makes me think that maybe they were marinating it, or maybe the fry temperature in the fryer is just way too hot. This is so hard to cook – calamari. Calamari made me cry three times. *laughs*

Karl: What would you like to see more of in West Hollywood?

Lacey: It doesn’t even seem realistic in my time, sadly, but public transportation! Why does it have to be so bad? *pleads to sky* I feel like we could be so much more advanced as our own little city.

Karl: Do you want to get to the other side of Weho, or are we talking downtown and all over?

Lacey: I would say all over. The subway goes downtown from Hollywood and Vine. I can walk to Hollywood and Vine in an hour, or 10 minutes on my bike, but it’s so frustrating to me. Even the cab-drivers have a tendency to ask where you’re going before you get in, and then they’ll drive away when they realize how close you’re going.

Karl: Yeah, I’ve gotten the, “It’s a $20 minimum” shout out. At least we live in an area where you can go walk to get a beer.

Lacey: It kills me.

Karl: Have you taken the bus? Do you like the bus?

Lacey: I have only ridden the bus in LA once. The traffic is so bad already and they have so many stops to make. We had a friend from England stay with us. He took the bus from our place to Santa Monica… It took him four hours.

Karl: *chokes on slider*

Lacey: That is why I don’t ride the bus.

Karl: How about less of?

Lacey: Less homeless. It’s a huge problem. When we first moved here I didn’t see much of it, and now I’m seeing more and more and more. There’s a part of me that wants to give change to every single homeless person I see, but now I can’t because I’m seeing 30 to 40 of them a week. One day around the holidays, I made up some sacked lunches and took them to all these people and they looked at me like I was an alien and I was about to strike them or something. They’re so used to being invisible. This past census was trying so hard to document how many homeless people are in LA. They did a free sock give-away to get them to come and be counted. Once that census ran though, they found 8.5 million homeless people in the Los Angeles area. I have no idea what the number is here in Weho but it’s a problem.

Otherwise, there really isn’t much I would change. Unless you want to install left turn signals that is. *laughs*

Karl: Wow! That’s a great one! No one has said that yet.

Lacey: In Pittsburgh, we have the “Pittsburgh Left” which means that as soon as that light turns green, you gun it through the intersection. But in LA, do not try and pull and Pittsburgh left. You will get hit. You wait until the light turns yellow, and then 2 or 3 cars get to go through. Jeff and I were just in Maryland and we were making “LA Lefts” and people were honking and screaming at us for turning through a red light. We’re just used to it.

Karl: What do you think of all these food trucks?

Lacey: I love it. I think it’s awesome. My friend and I went to Artwalk and I was blown away by the variety. And they have the same standards as restaurants. This is one of the things I love about California in general – the letter rating. I don’t even like to walk into a place with a B in the window even though I’ve worked in restaurants and I know how easily you can get a B. It can literally be like, “Um… the temperature of that fridge is 1-degree above what it’s supposed to be. Your knives were facing the wrong way in the container.” It can be anything. So when I see a food truck with an A, I’m like, Yeah! I love them.

Karl: Is it arguable that they take business away from the restaurants that are moving into your neighborhood?

Lacey: I would argue “no,” because they’re constantly traveling. They’re moving and their fans are following them on Facebook and Twitter. For example, I heard about the Grilled Cheese Truck forever, but I had never found it, never seen it. One night, we walked out of a bar and the Grilled Cheese Truck just happened to be there. It was so exciting! Because they’re mobile, they’re divvying it up. These trucks have to come up with things that are more unique and gimmicky because otherwise why wouldn’t you just go to a restaurant? Not everybody wants to eat their food out of a truck on the side of the road.

Karl: How was the Grilled Cheese Truck?

Lacey: Oh my God. *holds hand to chest* It’s so good. My friend and I split a macaroni and cheese grilled cheese sandwich. Talk about carbo-loading. It was so rich and so… Oh My God… Intense. Do people say the same thing about the sausage people parked outside of a bar? No. People love walking out of a bar and smelling bacon wrapped around a big sausage. I don’t even eat meat and it makes my mouth water. *laughs*

Karl: Are you guys happy here? Think you’re going anywhere?

Lacey: It’s home now.

Karl: ‘Till you kick that guy out of his house.

Lacey: There was a point a few years ago where we felt like we needed to get out. The idea of owning property here is outrageous.

Karl: It’s ridiculous. Although it is a great time to be a first-time home buyer right now.

Lacey: It is, That’s very true. But the older I get, the more logical I begin to think about these things. When I first moved here, there was this stigma in me that I didn’t want to be in my 40s, or having kids, and living in an apartment. And I don’t feel that way now, but there is just something to owning property. I mean, for fuck’s sake, for $1600+ a month I’m paying my landlord’s mortgage. I could be paying my own mortgage. It kills me. That and that alone would push us out of here.

Karl: Where do you see West Hollywood in 20 years?

Lacey: I’ve never thought about that.

Karl: You two will be here, so describe it for me.

Lacey: If you go between Fountain and Sunset, east of Fairfax, all those little houses there down towards La Brea…

Karl: It gets very white-picket fencey over there.

Lacey: Yes, I wish we could get rid of the 70s apartment complexes with those crazy names. Have you noticed they’ve named them all, as if they’re streets? There’s Sherry Romaine and Ray Willoughby, and they’re covered in sea shells! *laughs* It’s awful. I see more modern architecture coming in, but I hate that.

Karl: I think when housing picks up, all that stuff will start to renovate. I hope.

Lacey: Well even in this economy we’re seeing it, and I’ll still take it, but next to what used to be the TomKat – that gay porno theater that used to list the names of the movies on the marquis. There was Drill Bill and Rear Factor… And they would list the actors’ names like Chicken Likin’… Whenever my family came to visit, we could go look at what was playing at the TomKat. So next to that they tore down a bunch of stuff and put up condos with business on the ground floor, which I like seeing, it’s very East Coast. But it’s like Spiderman was the architect. The design on the outside of the building looks like giant web splooges. I thought, “Awwww, you had such a good thing going!”

Karl: Yeah, that’s going to date pretty quick, huh?

Lacey: It doesn’t look good now!

Karl: I hate that black and white thing on the corner of La Cienega and Melrose. That thing is such an eye sore.

Lacey: YES! *laughs* That’s what I’m talking about.

Karl: What is the attitude of our community now?

Lacey: Something I love about West Hollywood is that we’re not ‘hipster.’ There’s a little more crunchy granola feel I think. We’re not Venice, but there is a youthful vibe, which is nice. It’s more crunchy than towards Silverlake, where everyone’s wearing jeans tighter than their skin.

Karl: So in 20 years, will it still be that way?

Lacey: I hope that because of the Russian people, the young people, and the gay community, that it’s not family oriented. There are obviously families here, and I like the idea of raising a family here, but I don’t want it to be like the Valley where you’re going to go pop out some kids.

Karl: Well, I’ll tell you something, if the West Hollywood schools stay the way they are, you will never have to worry about that happening.

Lacey: I know, that’s so sad. My sister and her husband used to live in D.C., and I think the school systems there make us look awesome. My niece came home from school and said, “Mommy, can I axe you a question?” And they were like, “Okay, we’re outta here.” It’s sad that the best option is just to move. Granted, it’s easy for me to say that because I don’t have any kids yet.

Karl: Ever do Halloween here?

Lacey: Halloween was my favorite holiday. I used to start making my Halloween costumes the day after Halloween for the following year. We moved over here and we always heard about the Halloween Parade but we always had other plans. We typically travel to a live music festival. But one year we were just here and had nothing to do so we walked down to the parade. I was miserable. I am so claustrophobic, and there were half a million people. I’ve done big music festivals, I can deal with crowds, but not when I’m aware that I may have to buckle arms with yours and lift my legs if this turns into a mob. I started freaking out. My girlfriend just told me to look up at the open space so I walked through the entire parade staring up.

Karl: You’re petite too, so you’re staring at backs and stuff the whole time.

Lacey: Yeah, very enclosed. It wasn’t what I thought it would be. There was no beer and I kept asking, “Where are we going? We’re just walking around looking at food stands and costumes?” And there was nowhere to go to the bathroom. My friend and I had to pee on the ground in an alley because there was nowhere else to go. I thought it would be more fun. There wasn’t a lot of fun involved.

Karl: *laughs* It’s not that bad anymore. They have bars open and bathrooms and stuff now. I remember when it was like that, what a mess.

Lacey: Yeah, I’m over the West Hollywood Halloween Parade.

Karl: Do want to part ways with any story or last message to readers?

Lacey: *thinks* LA is a beast. My first year in LA was awful. I hated it here. I’ve recently become close friends with a girl who moved here a year ago from Seattle. She was just like me, didn’t know anybody, was completely shifting careers by coming here. I have watched her go through that experience of what it means to be in LA for the first year. It can really eat you alive. But if you can get past that first year… I don’t want to say, “If you can tame the beast,” but if you can learn to sort of dance with it and be a part of it, it can be a great fucking city to live in. But not if you’re trying to tell it what to do. You have to let LA speak to you so you learn how to breath and move with it.

Chris W.
7″ wide x 5″ high
Hand-cut vellum
_____________________________

Karl: It’s Saturday morning, May 7th, 2011. I’m enjoying muffin tops and coffee at the welcoming home of West Hollywood native, Chris. So what do you do for a living?

Chris: I’m a substance abuse counselor.

Karl: And you’re going to school for your license?

Chris: I’m working for my licensure as a marriage and family therapist, or when I get to that place maybe I’ll just go for my Doctorate. I never finished my bachelors so I’ve been doing online stuff to get my bachelors and then I’ll go into the Masters program.

Karl: How old are you?

Chris: 44.

Karl: Current relationship status?

Chris: I’ve been married since 2005. In October it will be 6-years.

Karl: And you have a beautiful little girl, generously sharing her toys with my daughter.

Chris: She’s going to be 3 on the 4th of July.  She’s a blessing.

Karl: What are some things you like to do outside of work and study?

Chris: I like to run. I run home from work. It’s about 7-miles, so that will be my workout since I have to get home anyway.

Karl: God, that’s awesome.

Chris: I don’t drive, so that’s my way to optimize my time.

Karl: Do you bus-it if it’s raining?

Chris: I bus-it three times a week because I work late. So I would only run twice at week at most anyway. I’ve been doing a lot of private practice stuff and I need to get on the bus to get home so I can pick up for the nanny because my wife works late on the nights that I do that.

Karl: How long does it take to run 7-miles?

Chris: An hour and 20-minutes maybe.

Karl: Nice. What else besides running?

Chris: Well, I don’t have a lot of time to play any longer but I’m a musician. I play when I can. I’ve found that the most playing I get done is because of someone bringing a guitar to work. I’m already there, so I get excited and I get to play it.

And cooking! Cooking is something that I really like. We love the cooking shows. I worked in a kitchen at one time. I wouldn’t say a chef, but I worked as a cook in a kitchen so I like to do that too.

Karl: You didn’t want to stay in that field?

Chris: I was a musician in London in the 90s and I needed money. So I walked into a pub and said, “I want to be a bartender.” They said, “We don’t need any bartenders.” So I asked, “What do you need?” He said, “We need chefs.” So I said, “Well, I’m a chef!” I hadn’t had any cooking experience at that point but low and behold, I was a chef. In actuality they had hired me because it was Ramadan and the two current chefs were Algerian Muslims and were fasting. This meant they couldn’t taste their food, so they hired me to come in during the day.

Karl: To taste their food for them?

Chris: To taste, but really they ended up not doing anything and just sort of pointing at stuff.

Prior to that, I went into a book store. I don’t know if this is still the case today but in order to sell adult books, you needed to have a certain proportion of legitimate books. So it had to be a portion of adult stuff and then a portion of Mark Twain. So you go into any adult book store and there would be two small shelving units, all dusty that nobody’s ever touched. Anyway, I walked in and asked for a job and they got raided right then at that moment.

Karl: *laughs* Perfect timing.

Chris: So that’s how I ended up becoming a chef.

Karl: How long were you in London?

Chris: I stayed from ’92 to ’98, about 6-years. I went with a guy that I met here who invited me to play on his record. He was a friend of mine, so I went there to do that and then ended up in another band after that because he joined Robert Plant’s band as his guitar player. Francis Dunnery is his name. So that’s what brought me out there. That gig sort of died and I ended up doing a lot of other things. Prior to that, I was in a band called Hollywood Rose which turned into Guns N’ Roses. I played in that band with Axl and Izzy.

Karl: So you’re famous?

Chris: Well, until I was about 18, and then I left.  Appetite for Destruction has a song of mine.  Lies has two songs of mine.

Karl: That’s fantastic.

Chris: So that was my career jump starter. Unfortunately, it led into substance abuse.

Karl: I can imagine.

Chris: I had my heart valve replaced as a result of it.

Karl: Do you still see income from that?

Chris: A small, tiny amount. That’s already come and gone. I didn’t write Sweet Child o’ Mine, and I didn’t write Welcome to the Jungle. The majority of the money I get from play is from movies where those songs appear. As far as radio play, they don’t really play.

Karl: Appetite for Destruction is on iTunes, right?

Chris: Yes, but that’s mechanical money. Public performance money, I don’t get that much of. If you wrote Sweet Child o’ Mine, it plays 200,000 times a year. You get paid for every time it plays so you get big checks from that. Sales from Appetite for Destruction, I have platinum records that say 20-million records sold. So people are buying used ones if anything. With the new format of iTunes, people are buying it through the store so it’s selling again, but to be honest with you, I’ve already gotten my money out of that.

Karl: That’s so interesting.

Chris: After London, I came back and started a band called U.P.O. I got a deal with Sony and had a couple records with Sony Epic. The first album did really well and had some big top-5 singles. The second record didn’t do well because there wasn’t money behind it. At that point I was like, “I think I’ll change careers.” I had gotten sober and I kind of liked talking to people, so I thought, “You know what, maybe I’ll do therapy. I want to explore that.” And I really liked it.

Karl: Being someone who has dealt with a lot of therapists, I think it’s great for a patient to find someone who has the life experience. Many of the family counselors that you come across have never had kids, or counselors for postpartum who have never given birth, so that experience really adds a certain quality to the therapist.

Chris: Yes. And I work with a population of people who have substance abuse. We have a pretty young population that comes into our level of care, which is out-patient. I look young for 44, and am probably a little bit more hip than some of the other clinicians, so I work well with that population.

Karl: So when you get the Masters, are you going to stay put?

Chris: Yeah. It depends what program I can get into. If I can do everything online, I don’t really care if my shingle says Johns Hopkins or University of Arizona. I just need to be able to practice for money. To be honest with you, I want to do family work. Not couples but family.

Karl: Well, you can speak from experience there too. Tell me about growing up here. What did your parents do, how did they end up here?

Chris: My mom was from Los Angeles, my dad was from Milwaukee. He came through New York where he was an actor, and came out to Los Angeles where he ended up doing real-estate. He did some space movies in the 50s before anyone had gotten into space. He did one movie called Phantom Planet.  I had seen the movie recently because I had ordered it and chopped it up and edited it as a present for him. So I was familiar with it. He had done this in 1960 or something like that. Anyway, I’m watching TV at 6 in the morning, about to go to work, and I notice something that looks familiar. It was this hotel chain, La Quinta Inn, they had bought stock footage of this movie, of my dad, and he was selling hotel beds! They dubbed over his voice, it was incredible. I would’ve seen that it was my dad when he was 20, but I only really got it because I had just edited it. It was really a one in a million chance that I just caught it out of the corner of my eye.

Karl: Where were you born?

Chris: I was born at Cedars. We had a house on La Cienega and Fountain.

The house isn’t there any longer.

Karl: Is it one of the big condo buildings over there now?

Chris: Yes, they started at a $1.5 and those same units are now down to like $999K. But there was a house there that I grew up in throughout the 70s.

Karl: Are those positive memories?

Chris: Yeah, I have great memories of that house. We had a huge backyard to play in with an avocado tree. My grandmother lived in a small house in the back and my great grandmother and my great-aunt lived next door. We used to hang out at my great-grandmother’s house. They were Polish and were always stuffing and hanging kielbasa from the ceiling in the kitchen. It was all old-looking. Even back then, it was old. All the furnishings were from the 40s.

Karl: Were there lots of kids in the neighborhood?

Chris: No, I didn’t have lots of friends to be honest. I had friends, but they weren’t in the neighborhood.

Karl: Which school did you go to?

Chris: I went to Kindergarten through 2nd Grade at St. Victor’s, which interestingly, we’re going to try to get her into. They’re starting a preschool.

Karl: Nice.

Chris: Yeah. We’re going to an open house next week. Then I went to The Center for Early Education. That’s the school over on Melrose and La Cienega – the big one that Steven Spielberg donated $10 million dollars to, or whatever that story is.

*dog barks in the distance outside and family dog, Trouble, perks up*

Trouble, no barking! I gave her a valium. She doesn’t seem knocked out.

*girls bring a plastic cell phone over to the table*

Karl to girls: Wow! That’s so cool. *points at princess phone* Who is that? Sleeping Beauty?

Chris: *chimes in* That’s the Little Mermaid… No, I think that’s Cinderella. Doesn’t Sleeping Beauty have dark hair?

Karl: Snow White has the black hair.

Chris: No, you’re right, that could be Sleeping Beauty.

Karl: There’s like twenty of ‘em now, I get them mixed up.

*girls return to living-room*

So as a kid, what would you do? Did you skateboard or…

Chris: Bikes. We would ride to Aero Market.

Karl: Was is seedy?

Chris: I remember there was a sniper in one of those giant buildings on La Cienega. Yeah, I guess it could’ve been seedy. I remember walking into Barney’s Beanery and it was a completely different layout. I mean the walls were all the same but they had a bar in the back that was closed off. I went in at nine years old with my dad and I remember going into the bathroom, putting a quarter in the machine, and getting a little book of naked pictures. I put it in my pocket until I got home, opened it and they were little drawings. *shakes head*

Karl: Bummer. *laughs* So riding your bike to Aero Market, you never encountered any problems or anything?

Chris: I didn’t. No.

Karl: No neighborhood fights with rival kids or anything?

Chris: No. We would ride to Pan Pacific Park, and people would be fighting there. But it wasn’t like anyone was pulling out an AK-47 or anything.

Karl: How has this area changed since then? How does raising a child here now compare to memories of your childhood here?

Chris: Well, I felt pretty insulated as a kid, like I was in my own little world. I had a big backyard and we’re raising her in a condo. We’re more cautious now. There was a guy in the building here that got arrested for some stuff that he did with kids.

Karl: Do you still have affection for the place?

Chris: I was excited to move back to West Hollywood. Interestingly enough, I just ended up right down the street from where I grew up. I guess I do sort of feel like it’s a home base.

Karl: What are some of the changes you’ve seen since moving back?

Chris: *thinks* There used to be a Piece O’ Pizza next door to Holloway Cleaners. It was there forever. That has turned into a series of bad ventures by people who think that they can do something different with no parking, or whatever the challenge is there. I feel so bad for everyone that goes in there because you know that they’re excited to be opening. But I want to say, “You’re doomed!” There are a couple places like that here, and that’s one of ‘em. There are also some buildings that people, when they had money 5-years ago, were investing in. I wouldn’t live in them but those modern ones down the street for example, that they’re now selling for $300K less than they originally thought they could get for them. There’s a feeling that there was going to be a lot of money put into this area, and excitement that this area was really going to thrive, and then it just didn’t quite catch. Like people started to do that and then lost their nerve, and didn’t have the money. Although the middle of the Boulevard, around Rage, I think they’ve done a nice job with. I have to say about West Hollywood, this is the cleanest city around. There’s a mattress up the street and your eye goes to it immediately. You think, “Someone left a mattress out,” but I’ve lived in areas where that’s common place.

Karl: Yeah, even close by.

Chris: Absolutely. You drive 5-minutes in any direction and it feels like they don’t care. West Hollywood feels like it cares about its residents.

Karl: Would you say that’s the general attitude of the community?

Chris: Yeah, from the people I run into. Yes. That’s why it feels kind of homey. It’s like someone’s taking care of you. The homeowners associate may be different. There are some unscrupulous people there and it’s sort of a micro version of a city in itself. But they’re building that library deal. Somebody had the guts to do that.

Karl: What do you think of that?

Chris: I think it’s great. Anything that says, “Kids” on it now is great. I always wanted to feel included by government programs, but nothing ever pertained to me. But now that I have a kid, I say, “Well okay, it’s got kid stuff!”

Karl: So in your opinion, all of the construction in Weho is a positive thing?

Chris: Yeah, absolutely. As a home-owner, it doesn’t bring the value down, it can only bring it up, unless they put some monstrosity next to us, but that’s unlikely. *looks out over girls toward living-room window* I picked this place because I like the openness of the huge window and the tree outside. I also like that I’m not looking at some apartment building, I’m looking at a beautiful house. So this is my world. Other people might look out at an electrical pole or something.

Karl: Or a wall.

Chris: Well, if I’m looking at a wall that doesn’t brighten my day, then yeah. That was important to me. The house I grew up in on La Cienega had a huge pepper tree. I don’t know what it’s really called but it was giant, and it would move with the wind… It didn’t feel like the city.

Karl: Yeah, this is calming. It’s really nice. People have complained about all the construction in the city, that’s why I ask that question.

Chris: I don’t drive. I know a lot of people complain about the road construction, and I can understand why, but I don’t have a personal experience with it.

Karl: No, the fact that you run removes that whole element from the LA equation. It removes the construction, the traffic, that whole thing, which is really nice! It’s a really relaxing way to live.

Chris: Yeah. And the bus is basically a limousine that I share with 90 other people.

Karl: I’m a big fan. You can get stuff done.

Chris: Yeah, I do my studying on the bus. Or do phone calls to and from work. Thank God for the iPhone.

Karl: What did we ever do without ‘em?

Chris: I don’t know. We went home and checked our messages on tape-recorders.

Karl: Has the city changed for the better or the worse in the time that you’ve lived here?

Chris: Well, in the 80s I was in the rock n roll scene. My community was focused around West Hollywood’s Troubadour and the Sunset Strip. Talk about the Golden Age of any area, I’m sure it was also true in the 60s when the Doors where here, but in the 80s it was like that too. And that feeling then, as a 16 to 18-year old, felt really good because there was a community here. I don’t feel like I’m part of a community now. That’s not a terrible thing because I don’t need it as much, but I really felt like I was part of a community then. The streets were mine. I would walk down the street and I felt connected. It’s nicer now, it’s not as disheveled and falling apart, but it feels different. Maybe it’s just ’cause I’m older. I think a lot of people say the same thing though – that they lost that connection that was here.

Karl: Was the gay community and the Russian community a presence for you then?

Chris: It wasn’t really a factor. I didn’t have any Russian friends. My parents had some gay friends.

Karl: Well, I ask because I grew up in a very rural part of Pennsylvania where it’s totally not a factor by any stretch. People were very Catholic, Mennonite, Amish, etc., so I’m curious if it plays more of a role with the kids here too. It doesn’t seem to at all. It was prominent back then, but most of the kids who grew up here didn’t even notice it.

Chris: As far back as I can remember, West Hollywood was known as a hub of the gay community with resources and bars similar to San Francisco and New York. So for that community I think that they felt very bonded. But I didn’t really get it.

Karl: What would you like to see more of?

Chris: My fondest memory of West Hollywood was Ponyland at the Beverly Center.  I found some home movies of me at my first birthday at Ponyland. Anybody that was here back in the late seventies will know Ponyland. It was a staple. In the middle of the city, there was a big dirt lot. It was huge. And ponies would run around in it. And behind that was an amusement park. Now, with the cost per square foot, it doesn’t make sense, but that was great. We did birthdays there and Saturdays and would eat cotton candy.

Karl: So you’d like to see more places like that pop up?

Chris: Yeah, something unique that’s not as commercial or just a building selling stuff – something special, like the library. It may take away an opportunity to make money but it makes it so much nicer to live in that area. I mean, I learned to swim in that pool at West Hollywood Park.

Karl: Have you got her in lessons yet?

Chris: She was in lessons for 9-months and we’ve just now taken her out for money reasons. Once she’s in school we’ll figure what else we’re going to do. She also likes to dance, so we’ll maybe do dance classes.

Karl: What would you like to see less of?

Chris: As little as it is, I still don’t like people begging and some of the smellier people that are out there. There’s a lot of crystal meth. I walk the dog at 6 in the morning and there’s a lot of guys walking around tweaking. They don’t usually come out during the day, but that’s not great for her. But I know we’re probably in the best area considering how much of that is around.

I would’ve said less dog crap, but I love all the plastic bag dispensers they’ve put up.

Maybe some bumps in the streets. I see people get up to 50 or more out here. *points out window* But no, there isn’t much, I really like West Hollywood. What do other people say? I’m just curious.

Karl: The same things… Less traffic, less homeless, less dumpster diving…

Chris: I totally support the whole recycling thing, just not in my backyard. My garage is locked. If you stand there, wait for someone to come out, and then jump in, you’re recognizing that you’re not supposed to be there.  That’s the reason there’s a gate.

Karl: Yeah, it’s an interesting question to throw out there because this is a really hard place to complain about.

Chris: The public transportation is great. The people who say that, I don’t know if they take public transportation or if they’re just assuming that it’s not good. There are regular buses on Santa Monica and La Cienega, including the Dash which is a great option. I’ve never taken Cityride but there are Cityride buses I could take if I needed to.

Karl: Are you happy here?

Chris: I’m not happy with my choice of apartment – the condo, because I thought that the homeowners dues would be offset by the increase in value. But now with the economy I have lost all my money, and that’s worrisome. But that’s worrisome for everyone right now. I think the city has kept its value, but there was also a high premium on it when money was cheap. So I’m not happy with that. I’d like to be in a place that doesn’t cost so much.

Karl: So you’d leave the unit but not the city?

Chris: Well, my work is in West LA. On some days I can run home faster than the whole trip takes by bus. I can see the bus 4-blocks in front of me and I’ll sit there for 20-minutes and the bus still hasn’t gotten to me. So if I was closer, I could get to work easier. That being said, unless I live right next to work, I don’t know how much that’s really going to save.

Karl: Are there things you just hate about it? If you have any of that sort of resentment, I’d love to hear about it.

Chris: It’s not because of the area, it’s just because of the economy.

Karl: Life.

Chris: Yeah, life. I love my neighbors. There are unpleasant people everywhere. I genuinely feel that this community is just nicer. People say hello to you on the street. They don’t do that so much in Hollywood, or Pico Rivera, or *thinks of anyplace* Fullerton. There’s a lot of foot traffic which makes it kind of New York’y.

Karl: Where do you see things 10 to 20 years from now?

Chris: I don’t see the area broadening as far as the demographic goes. You have Beverly Hills on one side and the other side is really Russian, so this is really the densely gay populated area. Because of that I think it will retain its value. You can’t make something bigger if there’s no space for it. So I think when the money comes back and people start to put money back into this area, it’s only going to make things more vibrant and thriving. We’ll probably get rid of some of the lower rent apartments. I don’t know how that works, but I imagine we’ll get rid of the ones that are obvious eye sores and put up condos when the money’s available again. But this is like an island.

Karl: That’s an interesting way to look at it.

Chris: I know West Hollywood supposedly goes down to La Brea, but that community starts to change pretty quickly on the other side of Fairfax. So I foresee that happening, and that’s just hoping that the money goes up and finances get better, which they slowly are. I was on zillow… Are you familiar with zillow?

Karl: Yeah, I don’t even want to know. I haven’t looked in over a year. It’s always so depressing.

Chris: Well, I won’t say the figures, but I do get these updates and you can see in the heading of the email, “Reduced… Lower… Decreased…” Those words always stick out. And finally, I saw “Increase.” I clicked on it and saved it, I was so excited. It was the first increase in 2-years or so. It was .1%! My place had gone up $1,000.

Karl: We’ll take it! *laughs*

Chris: It was a trend. 30-days in a row it’s gone up. So we’ll see what happens.

Karl: Well, I don’t want to press our luck with the girls since we haven’t had a melt-down yet.

Chris: Yeah, they seem to get along pretty well.

Karl: Is there anything else you’d like to share about yourself before I turn the recorder off?

Chris: I didn’t have a child until I was 41. It’s a scary thing, especially when you’re moving into a different chapter in your life. But my motto is, “I’m at least as capable as half the people that are already doing it.” So I’m not going to not be able to do whatever it is that’s posed. That helps with fear of things.

Steve Valentine
7″ wide x 5″ high
Hand-cut vellum
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Karl: It’s Sunday, April 17th, 2011.  I’m having lunch at Basix with Los Angeles Publicist, Steve Valentine, producer of West Hollywood’s Gay Ballroom.

Steve: Did you want to take a look at the menu before we get started?

Karl: I always get the same thing, so go ahead. I go with the salmon omelet.

Steve: Oh, you’re getting breakfast?

Karl: Well, I’m drinking a mimosa, so why not?

*browses menu*

Steve: This is it, I’m going to have a bagel today, and then I’m back on the diet. I haven’t eaten for weeks because I was getting ready for the LA Weekly photo shoot.

Karl: Well, the shoot is over so you can kind of go nuts, right?

Steve: But we’re getting ready to start competing again so I’m just going to go nuts for a little while.

Karl: *laughs* Good for you. Cheers.

*glasses clink*

Karl: So, when people ask you your occupation, how do you define yourself?

Steve: Publicist.

Karl: Approximate age?

Steve: I would say, late forties. I’m actually fifty.

Karl: No way!

Steve: Thank you. I think it’s the dancing. I’m passionate about what I do, so that helps. Everyone has a bad day, but I’m a very positive person, I always have been.

Karl: Are you training constantly?  Is there anything outside of work and dancing?

Steve:  I’ve always danced.  When I was a kid, I would organize dance parties around my house. My dad didn’t really like that, he was uncomfortable with it, but my mom was a great dancer.  She taught me all of those old dances from the 60s like “The Jerk” and all that stuff.  In college, I started taking formal classes like jazz and ballet.  I’m usually dancing at least once a week with Robert, my coach and dance partner. And we usually do at least a couple of hours when we’re not training to compete.

*waiter asks for orders*

Karl: Where do you like to go out?

Steve: You know what? It’s hard in LA because the places you can go out to dance are just the bars and clubs. When I was coming up, I did a lot of disco dancing. I loved that era! I loved the stainless steel dance floors, the lights, the pretty clothes, and the beautiful music.  I danced with women then, and now I’m doing it with a guy. A few years into college, I came out to the woman I was with who was very supportive. I always wanted to rekindle that love of dancing with someone else because I think it’s a really beautiful art form.  When I started thinking about doing same-sex dancing, I was really concerned about it not looking effeminate. I knew it wasn’t something that was traditional, and being in PR, I was concerned at how people would react to it. So I wanted to make sure people would be comfortable. I wanted to show them that it was cool, beautiful, sexy and fun. I wanted my passion and enthusiasm to come through and I think it really has, and that’s why we’re winning. I’m not the best dancer in the world. I’ve only been competing in ballroom since April of last year. I think it’s because I’m a showman and I can perform.

Karl: I saw you started Gay Ballroom in 2007, but that wasn’t ballroom dancing?

Steve: Yes, but I was producing the classes.  I wasn’t teaching them.  I wanted to be the producer.  I always thought of Gay Ballroom as a business first, and the competing grew out of it. I had never considered it until I met Robert. I wanted to learn how to do it myself, so I asked, “How do I do this? I have to find someone who can be my dance instructor, and why don’t I offer it to the city?” So that’s how it started.  The first instructor I met was really cool. I met him while I was having a margarita at Border Grill in Santa Monica. I saw this beautiful guy at the Dance Doctor, (the dance studio across the street on 4th). He was teaching this straight couple and I thought, “Wow, he’s really cute!  Maybe I could dance with him.”  I think he thought I was a stalker at first because I left this weird card with a note, so I’m glad he finally called. I said, “I just want to dance.” Because like I said, where do you go, where do you dance? He was my first instructor back in 2007. He went to do a project in Japan or something. So then I had a bisexual woman teaching the class. She was great, mostly salsa and cha-cha. And then I did an ad on CraigsList trying to find an instructor, and that’s how I found Robert.

Karl: Yeah, it seems like you two really connect.

Steve: Yes. He has the experience and the credentials to teach everything that I wanted to offer. And he’s a Taurus like I’m a Taurus. Crazy! He started to encourage me, saying, “You should compete!” So we started doing Pro-Am, which is a professional and amateur dancing together, and then we started entering all the different competitions. Right now we’re the Canadian champions.  We would have to go back to Montreal in May to defend our title, but of course the Gay Games won’t happen for another 4-years, so I have that title for another 3-years.

Karl: Where do you like to go out socially?

Steve: Well, I love the O-Bar. I’m a very high-aesthetic person. I love beautiful things and I love modern. I’ll go to the Abbey because everyone goes there. I know the guys at SBE really well, I’ve done some PR projects for them. You know where I’ve been going, that’s in Hollywood, is Supper Club. I’ve been doing some PR stuff for them. They’re great guys and they’re very accepting of anything that comes in. It can be gay, drag-queen, straight, everything, and it’s just a very cool, welcoming environment. It’s beautiful because you eat dinner in a bed.  I’m a regular guy too, I love going to Houston’s. I love going to Tender Greens. I was so glad when they came here.

Karl: Are you single? What’s your relationship status?

Steve: I’m in a relationship. I’ve been with a guy for four years in July. He’s really cool.  He’s the total opposite of me. He’s a dancer too, but he’s into computer technology. So we live in different worlds. He starts talking about applications and servers and I start glazing over. I met him in West Hollywood at Republic.

Karl: So what brought you from Mississippi to Los Angeles?

Steve: The girl that I was dancing with. She was originally from Orange County.  I was teaching disco classes in Oxford, Mississippi, and this really pretty Japanese woman and her sister started taking the class. She was pretty – very sensible jeans and decent shoes.  So I started using her for some of my promotions. (You know, I’m always the PR guy, always the promoter).  We started dancing together with friends, and we became lovers, and I was with her for ten years. Her mom had gone to Mississippi to retire.  But her family ended up moving back to California, so I came out here with them.

Karl: Nice.

Steve: Now they’re all back in Mississippi again.

Karl: When was that?

Steve: Oh my God… *thinks* I graduated college around ’84, so I came out here in the mid 80s.

Karl: Where did you go to school?

Steve: I went to Ole Miss, and I graduated high-school in Alabama, near Birmingham. I’ve lived in Florida, I’ve lived in Key West… Orlando when I was a kid.

Karl: All warm climates.

Steve: Yeah, it’s too bad. I have a lot of sun damaged skin that I’m paying for now from growing up on the Gulf Coast. We’d go to the beach everyday. I was hooked. So now I have to deal with that stuff.

Karl: Can you describe some of the changes you’ve seen over the time that you’ve been here?

Steve: Obviously there’s just so much more congestion. I notice it more because my boyfriend hates traffic. He doesn’t like living in Los Angeles, which is why he has a house in Arrowhead. So I notice it a lot because he’s always complaining about it. I don’t mind it so much, I know its part of being in a city. I just think we’re getting a lot more populated. There’s good and bad to that. It’s bringing in a lot of new business and restaurants from New York like Fig & Olive. But at the same time it makes it a little harder. It takes longer to get things done. There’s a lot of waiting in line. That’s the only challenge I see of everyday life in West Hollywood.

Karl: As an entrepreneur, does that make things more difficult for you?

Steve: I think it makes it better for me. The more people, the more energy that’s coming into Los Angeles. It’s more opportunity for me to tap into new industries. If this city is buzzing and busy, I can be busy too, so I welcome that.  The Beverly Center has really changed even from a few years ago. It was once considered just a mall, now it’s considered a high-end luxury center with Prada and Tiffany.

*Food is delivered to table*

Steve: Our mass transit is really slow-going but there are some things happening. I’m even considering moving downtown so I can be closer to mass transit. Especially with gas prices now.  West Hollywood is very aggressive in trying to bring business in. The Chamber of Commerce is really good about bringing the community together and trying to get businesses to link together and be part of the community. There are so many things that this small town can provide.  It really is a creative city, and the marketing that’s done to bring people to this city is great.

Karl: Have you been over to the Pacific Design Center recently? It’s really taking shape.

Steve: I have not, but I’ve seen the red building going up. I haven’t seen the new library but I know there’s new parking now. Do you live near by?

Karl: We live down the road a ways, near Kings Road Park.

Steve: We teach at Plummer Park. We’ve had a lot of interest. The Executive Producer of “So You Think You Can Dance” called me up and they filmed us for a long time. They filmed me at my job, and did the whole, “He’s a business guy, and then has this other stuff going on.” They took so much footage, for months, and they were interested in doing some kind of show. They didn’t know what they wanted to do and then it all kind of fizzled out. But I’m currently optioned with a company called “Flytrap Entertainment,” and they’re doing a show called “Ballroom Bitch.” They want me to be a judge. So I hope that project goes through. That would be a lot of fun.

Karl: What an opportunity.

*pauses to chew*

Karl: How would you describe the attitude here to people outside of West Hollywood?

Steve: I think a lot of people outside of Los Angeles think that we’re very laid back, that we don’t work. Angelenos work as hard as New Yorkers. Everyone in this town is very driven. Because of the industries that do well out here – entertainment, design and fashion – people think that’s sort of a ‘soft’ category. We’re not on Wall Street, we’re not in banking, or we’re not known for those things. But everyone here works really hard. If there’s any misconception, it’s that we’re just laid back and want to go to the beach all day. It’s not true. People think PR people throw parties. I’m a salesman. I’m pitching all the time. I’m pitching to get my clients noticed on TV and in magazines. What’s great is that we are in an idealistic environment. It’s ideal weather, we go to the beach, we go to the mountains. People outside of LA think it’s somewhat of a paradise, and I agree. It is a paradise – so many options. People also think we’re very liberal, which is also true for the most part, even to the point of being eccentric. But that’s what makes this town run – people like me that have ideas and aren’t afraid to make them happen. People are sitting around in the MidWest, and even on the East Coast that have ideas, or they don’t have ideas, I don’t know, but we come out here to make things happen. We’re doers.

Karl: Well, I’ve lived in New York, and I’ve never met people as die-hard as the people I’ve met out here. Unfortunately, I’ve never seen such incredible back-stabbing either.

Steve: I have a beautiful story about that. I launched Eva Mendes. The actress was my secretary. I found her through AppelOne. I was using her temporarily, and I liked her, so I hired her full-time. You know, you pay a fee. I thought she was great, we got along wonderfully, and she was my assistant. We had accounts like a fashion account, a shoe account – I had Campari at the time. I made her the spokesmodel. So when we would do an event, I would have her serve the drinks.  I was also handling Denzel Washington’s restaurant at the time, Georgia, which was on Melrose. So I kept putting her out there and she kept saying, “I want to be an actress, I want to be an actress.” And I was getting good feedback. When I would send her out on something, people would call me and ask, “Who is that? She’s fabulous!” So I started managing her. I was getting the breakdowns and I was sending her out everyday. I was letting her use my car to go on auditions, because she had a beat-up old Mustang.  Meanwhile I’m sitting there answering my own phone, bringing her frappaccinos. So I started getting her gigs. I used all my resources, photographers, make-up artists, got her everything for free, got her gorgeous pictures, wardrobe. I got her one of the “Children of the Corns.” I got her an “ER.” I signed her with LA Models talent division. The turning point was when I booked her for an Aerosmith video with Propaganda Films, and the Director was Antoine Fuqua when he was directing music videos. She played a wonder woman or something, and I got a call from the set. She said, “Steve, I met someone on the set and they said they can do x, y, and z for me.” And my mistake is that I didn’t go to the set. I don’t know why I didn’t. Probably because I was working, I was doing the PR thing. And she said, “I’m going to go with them,” and blah blah blah. I destroyed my office that day. I was so mad. This is a woman who said, “You’re family, I’ll take care of you, you take care of me.” All that kind of stuff. Really smart girl. So Antoine Fuqua would later use her in Training Day with Denzel. People remind me that I introduced her to Denzel. I don’t really remember it, but she was working with me around the time I had his restaurant. I don’t remember. I connect people, I do it all the time, it’s second-hand for me. So I think those things that came together are what launched her. But she totally stabbed me in the back, just like you said. I’ve never seen her since.

Karl: I’m sorry. You two don’t stay in touch, huh?

Steve: But, what you said happens, and I actually met with some friends of mine that were managers, and they said, “Steve, everyone leaves their first manager.” But it was hard because I’d be watching TV and I’d see a promo, or I’d go to the grocery store and she’d be on a magazine cover. Imagine breaking up with someone and seeing them everyday. It was awful. I know I can’t give any more energy to that, but for many, many years, it was really hard to get over. I think this is my time, and this is why I’m very passionate about doing my ideas that I want to do like the Ballroom. I realized that I gotta take care of myself first and then do things for other people.

Karl: Tell me what you would like to see more of here.

Steve: In the gay community, I would like to see more upscale places where we can congregate. The Abbey is fine, Micky’s is fine, but I like places like the O-Bar and Supper Club. I like places where you can talk and lounge, and you don’t have music pounding. We’ve got great restaurants, great hotels, but maybe a really cool place where you can dance. What would be great would be to see West Hollywood continue to evolve to be able to have same-sex partners get married. This is a great time to be in West Hollywood. That’s why I wanted to do Gay Ballroom with the City of West Hollywood because it’s known worldwide as a gay mecca. What else do I want to see more of? I don’t know, more hot men, that’s always fun.

Karl: Well, maybe the new upscale clubs will bring ‘em in.

Steve: Yeah. Maybe.

Karl: How about less of?

Steve: I’ve had a lot of clients in West Hollywood. I don’t know if it’s because I know how to negotiate with people, or I’m diplomatic, or I understand that you need to create relationships with people to get what you need. But I’ve always worked hard to create those relationships, so when I need something, it’s easier. So I would say this city has been supportive of everything I’ve needed to do. The perfect point of that is when I wanted to do Gay Ballroom, that was an immediate, “yes.” I would’ve liked a little more help promoting it. I did all of the promotion myself. The Parks and Recreation doesn’t have big budget to promote their facility, so it’s up to the people they have there to get the word out. That’s the only thing I would’ve liked to have seen more of.

Karl: That must be difficult as a publicist to know all of the things that should be happening and seeing none of that taking place.

Steve: It is. That’s the only thing I would’ve liked to have seen more of.

Karl: So you’re happy here? The city has been good to you?

Steve: Yes. Very. I’m an openly gay man, and I’ve never had any problems or issues with safety or anything. Some people have, but I never have, I hope I never do.

Karl: Tell me what you see for us ten to twenty years from now.

Steve: There will have to be more mass transit. That has to be completed. It’s really obvious right now with the gas problems that things are going to have to change. It’s going to save the residents money and it’s going to ease congestion. There are plenty of people who want to do business here so they can be selective about the kind of mix of business that they bring in.  This is why I think West Hollywood is the little jewel that it is.  I also hope in another 10-years, the City of West Hollywood will legalize gay marriage. I hope we’re there by then, if not way before.

Wendy Ho
7″ wide x 5″ high
Hand-cut vellum
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Karl: Today is March 10th, 2011, and I’m at Basix Café sitting across from the lovely Wendy Ho. Wendy, how do classify your occupation? You’re all sorts of things.

Wendy: I would say a good umbrella would be “entertainer.” But I’m a singer, comedian, rapper, and truth teller. *smiles*

Karl: Your stuff is awesome by the way! I absolutely love it.

Wendy: Thank you.

Karl: The shaving in the tub video is fucking hilarious!

Wendy: *laughs* That’s mostly my fiance, he thinks of that stuff and I’m like, “Okay…” *rolls eyes* “Let’s do it.”

Karl: On that note, let me throw out that you have a show coming up on March 16th.

Wendy: “The Ho & Buteau Show.”

Karl: At the Palms in West Hollywood. So your current relationship status would be “engaged?”

Wendy: I’m engaged.

Karl: Is he in the area?

Wendy: Yeah. At the moment he’s in Houston shooting something about female wrestlers, but I moved out here because we got engaged. I lived in New York for 9-years.

Karl: Oh nice. So how did you two meet?

Wendy: We met shooting a reality show on Showtime called “I Can’t Believe I’m Still Single” with this guy, Eric Schaeffer.  He approached me about doing a show and wanted to put a Wendy Ho song on it. And of course I was like, “You know, I really don’t want to be just one of your bitches.” But he said, “Well, what if you come on and you reject me?” And I was like, “Ok!” *laughs* So I did the show and my fiance was camera man on the show. So we met, had some chemistry, and kept in touch on Facebook. I came out and did a tour two summers ago, we went on a date, and fell head over heals for one another. And after I was out here, I saw the possibly of being able to work more because I could work from my car rather than being confined to the island of Manhattan.

Karl: How long have you lived here at this point?

Wendy: A little over a year – a year and a month.

Karl: Were you working in LA often while living in New York?

Wendy: No, not a lot. I would come once a year. It’s funny because when I would “come to town,” all of the queens would make a big fuss and do their best to get me on the show. But now that I live here, I’m their competition, so I don’t get treated that way anymore. I mean they’re nice to me. They love and support me. And I support them the best that I can, but it’s more of a “you book me, I book you” type of situation rather than, “Oh my God, Wendy Ho’s coming!” And now in New York, I get, “When are you coming back?!”

Karl: Tell me a little about yourself outside of work. What do you like to do in your free time? It doesn’t sound like you have much of it.

Wendy: I like to hike and exercise up at Runyon, sometime I go over to Griffith.  And I do yoga. I’m certified as a teacher.

Karl: Wow, good for you. What type?

Wendy: It’s Hot Yoga.  It’s like Bikram but it’s not under his umbrella. His style is a little too militant for me. He wants you to go in and memorize a whole… *thinks*

Karl: Bible? *laughs*

Wendy: Yes, totally! A whole bible, it’s like a script that you have to read the whole time and you can’t adjust to what the class needs. I enjoy socializing and going out, but I don’t do that a lot because my job is so much of that. My fiance and I love to go to Disneyland. That’s our date place that we love to go and cut up. But what I do is pretty all-encompassing. I’m always preparing for a show, or shopping for a show, or producing a video, or writing, so there isn’t a whole ton of free time. My life is designed around expanding what I do, and it’s part of my relationship with my fiance as well.

Karl: How did you get into this industry? Tell me a little bit about what it was like starting out.

Wendy: When I first started out, I didn’t know where this was going to land or who was going to like what I did. I was recording stuff, and I brought this guy my cd. I said, “I do this thing, and I’ll like rap at parties and stuff, and people always request it.” And I gave him this cd that I recorded, mostly as a joke. And he said, “Oh my God, this is so funny! Nobody’s doing this, why aren’t you doing this?” So I wrote a couple of songs and emailed a bunch of people asking, “Does anybody know where I can perform? I’ve got some crazy shit to say!” *laughs* And my gay friends said, “You can come in here, girl!” And as soon as I did it, it landed. I performed in a lot of straight up comedy clubs too. I don’t so much anymore because out here they pay you $12 a set. But at the time, it was something that people were hungry for – they wanted to see some bitch just break the fuck out and not hold back.

Karl: When did you start?

Wendy: 6-years ago.

Karl: What did you do before that?

Wendy: I’ve always been a theater person, so I was always singing and trying to find my niche. I did musical theater for awhile, but I prefer this. It’s so much more gratifying to write my own stuff. I witnessed a lot of artists who would land these Broadway gigs and would just want to kill themselves because they were doing the same fucking show every night. They ended up feeling like they were working a temp job. Unless you had some role that you just loved to sink your teeth into every night, a lot of these dancer boys were just like, “Oh my God, my career’s going to be over in like 2-years and I don’t know what to do.”

Karl: Has LA been a positive change? Were you more stressed in New York?

Wendy: Well, New York is just a more stressful place to live. When I went back for the first time after just living here for 5-months, I couldn’t believe that I had lived in New York for as long as I had. It was just a constant buzz.

Karl: Where were you living?

Wendy: I was living in Queens, in Astoria.

Karl: I lived in Astoria too, off Ditmars.  I loved it there.

Wendy: I loved it too, just thought it was darling. But I’m not a winter person, and carrying around my costumes and stuff on subways, it’s not like I had money to get cabs everywhere. So it’s gotten better here, definitely. I’ve been able to spread out and just kinda chill.

Karl: Do you miss it?

Wendy: Sometimes, yeah. There’s an energy there. The pace is easy to get swept up in. But I lived there for a long time, I’m not somebody who’s really affluent, and I was ready to relax a little bit. I definitely miss my friends there, but I can always go back.

Karl: Well, what are some of the differences in the community there compared to here?

Wendy: There are a lot of similarities actually. The thing that you don’t realize in the art of drag is that there’s different sections of it. There’s definitely different classes, or sects of being gay, or of doing drag. There’s this east/west mentality. The east side of LA is like the East Village of New York where there’s a lot of avant garde, edgy, underground, artistic stuff that’s happening. It’s fun, irreverent and crazy. And then there’s West Hollywood which would be like Chelsea in New York, where it’s a little bit more clean and pretty, and they like their drag a little more Top 40 and…

Karl: Poppy

Wendy: Yes, poppy. More female illusionist than “I’m going to give you my take on this character.” But it’s all got this sexual vibe to it. The sexuality is something that’s apparent in each one of the cultures, so they’re the same but they’re both different. It’s funny to me how it has kind of divided. So that’s how I would compare it. I would say there’s an east/west mentality in both places. And I don’t think it’s a bad thing, it’s just interesting that there’s that split within both communities.

Karl: In these different venues, what types of crowds do you see coming in these days?

Wendy: The east side of town, where the more avant garde stuff goes on is where I really see a lot more gay men. Here it’s started to become more “everybody.” Even at Hamburger Mary’s, it’s predominantly a straight crowd. You know, women coming in to do bachelorette parties and stuff. And what’s so funny about my act is that I am able to translate to both crowds. I can really straddle that line and I’m still the nasty bitch for each one of them. *laughs* I’m a bit of a novelty act in the fact that I’m a girl, I doll myself up, I’m pleasant to look at, and can get away with that in West Hollywood. And then there’s the east side where the fact that I’m raunchy and funny and nasty let’s me go and do things like Trannyshack.

Karl: Have you seen similar changes in New York?

Wendy: *thinks* I don’t know… Midtown and Chelsea still seems to be predominantly boys. The East Village too I would say. Now, in the neighborhood of Chelsea, I definitely see more of a mix, more families and strollers. But in the bars themselves, not really. Not like here.

Karl: What were people’s attitudes there in your opinion regarding the families and strollers?

Wendy: You’ll find some boys who say, “Stay out of the neighborhood. We want to be outspoken about our sexuality without feeling like we’re being offensive to anybody.” But because of what’s happening, the “gay bar” is kind of dying out. Even the need to have a Gay Pride is something that’s not really needed anymore because the mass opinion is, “That’s fine, we don’t care.” I was even talking with someone who’s in the Army, who is gay, who picked me up in Texas, and even he was saying, “Yeah, it’s really not a big deal. We’re not flagrant about it, but it’s very gay in the Army. We’re not scared that someone’s going to beat us up or anything.” Of course there’s going to be exceptions to that rule and people who hold on to those staunch opinions ’till they die.

Karl: Of course.

Wendy: I know some business suffer because they’re losing the certain market that they play to, but I still think it’s a good thing. Not necessarily the gentrification, I mean I don’t want corporations to move in, but I don’t have a problem with the cultures mixing. Although maybe it’s not the best place to bring kids if they continue to have the underwear stores and the sex shops, but that’s a choice that the parent makes. I think anyone moving in needs to be aware of that, conform to it, and respect that. Because that’s their choice of where they’re living. They shouldn’t come in and try and change it.

Karl: Right. The underwear store was here when you moved here, why complain about it now that you have kids?

Wendy: Exactly. Like I said, I don’t think it’s a negative thing for things to be going in that direction. I think that’s ultimately what the goal always was, that there be tolerance and acceptance for one another.

Karl: The New York Times recently reported that West Hollywood fears turning into another Beverly Hills.  I guess that’s the conflict people are feeling now – how much of that acceptance do you want?

*sips coffee*

So how would you describe the attitude of this city?

Wendy: Of West Hollywood? It depends on what day you catch it on, really. She’s kind of a moody bitch. There are days when she’s real cute, fun, and skipping down the street, and then there are days when it’s total shade. Just like I never know what kind of show I’m gonna have. I never know what the audience is going to be like, if they’ll love it or hate it.

Karl: Have you had bad shows?

Wendy: Oh yeah! I’ve had people just not know what to do with it at all. I’ve had some gays get really upset about the fact that they think my act is totally racist. I’ve had people protest it online and shit. Up in San Francisco there was a whole group of people that were up in arms about it. I think that’s sad that that’s the take that they’re getting from it.

Karl: Do they know they’re attending a comedy show?

Wendy: Well, that’s the thing… Somebody made some comment like, *in obnoxious whiney voice* “It’s all based on racial stereotypes!” And I’m like, *hands cupped around mouth* “That’s what comedy is!” It’s about stereotypes. We use stereotypes to relate to one another, that’s how we make it funny. A bad comedian gets up there and just straight up makes fun of it, or degrades it. But a good comedian makes fun of it but gives you the release, makes it funny to laugh at. It cracks me up because the joke is always on me, I’m the one up there calling myself a ho, *exaggerated head bob* talkin’ ’bout the way that I like to get fucked. *smiles*

Karl: So what sorts of things would you like to see more of in West Hollywood?

Wendy: This is just a people thing, and not everybody is like this, but the one thing about the audiences here is that people just don’t come out to see shows. I don’t know if this is generational thing because people can just stay home and watch this shit. People here come out for them, but they don’t come out to watch, or engage, or be respectful. Instead, they come out to be seen themselves. It’s more like, “Where can I go to be seen, what’s the hot thing this week?” I guess as a performer in an overly saturated market, you always wish that people would come out and sample new stuff, and generally support it.

Karl: You mean, as opposed to making the person on stage an accessory to the club?

Wendy: Absolutely, that’s what it is. It’s just something they want to point to once in awhile. I mean Karaoke, that’s fine, I get it, that’s what that is, but my show over at the Palms, it’s been tough to get people over there to check it out.

Karl: Well, do you think that’s maybe a recessionary thing too?

Wendy: I definitely think it is. Yes. Getting people to come out is just hard in general. There seems to be a complaint among business owners that the city makes it really hard for them to run these bars. I don’t know the details of what the laws are or how they’re making it difficult for them, but for a place that’s so supported by this community and goes out as patrons to these bars, I wish that it was easier for the businesses.

Karl: Where are you primarily performing in this area?

Wendy: I perform at Hamburger Mary’s weekly, Palms once a month, and I do a show over at the Fault Line on Melrose, over on the east side. And then I do stuff in Long Beach.

Karl: It’s pretty hot down there, huh?

Wendy: Yeah, it’s good.

Karl: You seem to have the promotional thing down, you’re pretty good at it.

Wendy: I am good at it. I hate it, but… Performing live is what I love to do, it’s my first love as an entertainer. And I realize that whatever I do for a living is going to be in support of that habit – you know, getting out there, and *bobs head* findin’ the luv! But I didn’t expect the business part of it. I think everybody has this idea that somebody’s gonna come along and take care of that part of it for you, or produce you in some way. And in reality, you just have to do it. I consider myself very lucky that I can make my living doing what I’m doing, and that the community has been welcoming to me. They don’t have to be. They could be like, “Oh that girl, she’s just trying to be another female drag queen, and she’s not a man, and blah, blah, blah.” But they didn’t. They totally embraced it.

Karl: Well, you are the community. All of us weirdos *points around restaurant and cracks up* make up this community. Do you get recognized? Do people come up to you often?

Wendy: Not a lot. I look different outside of my drag. I have a lot of wigs that I wear, a fro, long hair and stuff. Down in San Diego, where there were posters all over the place, everybody was recognizing me there. And that’s fun, but here it’s a little more incognito.

Karl: And what would you like to see less of?

Wendy: I would like to see less of the segregation that goes on.

Karl: You’re referring to the division that you touched on earlier?

Wendy: Yeah, and just the bitchiness that goes along with it. It would be one thing if it were just, “They’ve got theirs, we’ve got ours.” But with so many people, it has to be a competition; it has to be, “there’s not room for everybody to just do it their way.”

Karl: How do you go about resolving that?

Wendy: I don’t know. I’m always one to make it clear that I’m not here to compete against you. I had this one tranny online who was harassing me saying, “You’re not a trans, and I’m gonna come to your show, get up on stage, and battle with you. I’m gonna kick your ass and have somebody come and film it.” And I was like, “What I do is my take on things, and it’s to make people laugh, it’s not to compete against you or make you feel like there’s not room for everybody.” Actually the act is about accepting everyone as they are. I think the reason why so many gays relate to it is because there was a total cathartic coming out process that was involved in doing it. I was raised a very staunch Catholic so I had a lot of stuff that I had to battle in order to let it out.

I think the only thing you can do is just not partake in that and not feel the need to do that to another artist. It’s sad that in a community that’s so about embracing diversity that there are these divisions that happen. Existence as a human is hard. It’s hard for everybody, no matter what level they’re on, no matter what they’ve got, no matter what car they’re driving. There are these things we’ve all got to work against and overcome as human beings, and once we can unite in that I think everybody will be able to loosen up and have better relationships with one another.

Karl: So did she show up and kick your ass?

Wendy: No! She didn’t because I wrote to her and I said, “Listen, this stance that you’re taking to have beef with me online is not going to help you in your career.”

Karl: Well, is it fair to say that you’re in one of the more conflicting industries?

Wendy: Absolutely! A friend of mine has been on this “Rupaul’s Drag Race” which has been a big thing because everybody wants to go and see these girls now. But because it’s a competition, these people that watch it really take it to heart and just started firing things on my friend’s Facebook page about how she was a negative bitch, and fat, and just all this nasty shit. I always love it when somebody wants to come along and wave the flag of “let’s be positive” but does it in a completely negative way.

Karl: Yeah. Going on national television is really throwing yourself out there to the wolves. Even putting something on youtube is bad enough these days, people just tear you up!

Wendy: So much of entertainment is smoke and mirrors, make it look pretty, look how perfect it is out here, our lives are just better than yours, when in reality, everyone fucking struggles.

Karl: When you do go out, what places do you like to hit?

Wendy: As I’ve gotten older, I’ve found that I enjoy the afternoon cocktail with my lady friends. We’ll go to really sceney places like The Polo Lounge, we’ll get a table, hang out, and just see that scene which is fun. Sometimes I’ll go have a drink with my man over at Boardners in Hollywood.

Karl: Right. Next to Bar Sinister.

Wendy: That’s the place where we dated and got to know each other, so I like to go over there and have a cocktail. And, if I’m not working, I do like to go out and frequent people’s shows. I love to hit Trannyshack when it comes to town at the Echoplex.  And I love to go to the Dreamgirls over at Rage. They’re fucking amazing. I have to say, even in New York, I’ve never seen drag like I’ve seen it here. It’s just like, “Oh my Lord… You all are serious!” *laughs*

Karl: So where do you see this city in 20 years? Do you think we’re headed in a good direction or a bad direction?

Wendy: I think we’re headed in a good direction. We live in a great place, we’re able to express ourselves and do what we want to do here. There are so many places where you can do that, but you’re gonna get pummeled maybe. Things will continue to evolve and change, and the city will have to roll with it. I think the whole thing with it needing to be labeled as “gay” is gonna die. I do. And I don’t think that’s a bad thing. This will always be a gayborhood where gay men and women come to live, where it’s safe to walk around, hold hands, and be affectionate with one another. But I don’t think it’s a bad thing that it’s… I don’t want to use the word “gentrification…” I just don’t think that it’s a bad thing that it’s mixing. The small businesses are still here, and I think that they’re going to stay here, but that’s up to us and our patronage.

____________

Wendy Ho will be performing at the Palms Bar on Santa Monica Blvd. on March 16th, 2011 in “The Ho & Buteau Show.”

More Wendy Ho:
http://www.wendyho.net
http://www.facebook.com/wendyhofan
http://www.twitter.com/wendy_ho
http://www.youtube.com/wendytheho
http://wendyho.bandcamp.com/

Sarah
7″ wide x 5″ high
Hand-cut vellum
_____________________________

Karl: It’s a frigid LA evening on Thursday, February 18, 2011. Sarah and I are overlooking an active Sunset Boulevard from a window-side booth at Sushi Dan.  Thank you for doing this, by the way.

Sarah: Oh are you kidding me? This is so exciting!

Karl: So what’s your occupation?

Sarah: I’m currently unemployed. I’d like to be doing comedic acting, ideally, my own sitcom. I’m also a singer/songwriter, although I suffer from major stage-fright.

Karl: I find that hard to believe.

Sarah: Only when it comes to singing. It’s so easy for me to be the funny girl, but when it comes to singing and playing for people it’s really uncomfortable. So I would be pursuing that full time if I wasn’t totally debilitated by my stage fright.

Karl: Are you pitching sitcoms right now?

Sarah: No, not even in the slightest. Literally, in the last two months, I just decided I’m going to pursue acting and I haven’t even been on one audition yet. I’m a brand new baby.

Karl: Relationship status?

Sarah: Single… Not wanting to be. *laughs* I’m gay, except every 6-months I sleep with a guy, just because I get an urge to. A lot of my friends say, “Well then you’re not totally gay.” But I identify as gay because I’ve never had a boy friend, and I don’t really want one. But I love… *makes thrusting motion with fist* …penis.

Karl: Yeah, I get it. I imagine you take a lot of shit for that from your lesbian friends.

Sarah: Yeah well, I’m already really strange, so people think, “Oh, just one more thing we can’t wrap our heads around.”

Karl: Is it the same guy every 6-months?

Sarah: No. It’s now been 9 different guys! 2003 is when I first embarked on the journey. I was just so curious.

Karl: How do you meet these guys?

Sarah: I’ve known all of them previously – acquaintances, co-workers, brothers, or friends of mine. I just call them up and say, “Do you want to have sex with me?” And that’s how it happens. It’s never been organic in any way. It’s more of just an actual booty call.

Karl: I’m sure they’re happy to oblige. They’re probably like, “You would not believe this call I got tonight!”

Sarah: Usually I’m like, “Ok, you can go home now. I don’t need to snuggle.”

Karl: Tell me about your hobbies and what you do in your free time.

Sarah: I’m 30-years old but I love riding my skateboard. I’ve been riding since I was 7. When I think of my childhood, I think of riding around this area for hours. I’m also really into astrology!

Karl: Oh really? Tell me about that, what does that entail?

Sarah: Well, if I’m getting to know someone new and I know a lot about their birth chart, it gives me these tools to know how to relate to them. For example, if your moon is in Pisces, that would mean that you’re a very sensitive person, and I would know, “Maybe I won’t make fun of him about this thing because it might hurt his feelings.” It’s just a guide to know how to work with someone, especially when I meet a new girl. I’m like, “What day were you born? What time were you born?” *writes on invisible pad* And they’re like, “What are you doing?”

Karl: So what brought you back to West Hollywood? You grew up here…

Sarah: Yes.

Karl: So what did your parents do here? Why did you leave? And what brought you back? Give me the full circle.

Sarah: My dad was a photo-journalist, and my mom has always been trying to end hunger, that kind of stuff, a lobbyist. She’s done many things but now she’s a life-coach. Anyway, they met in Salt Lake City, got married, moved to Sausalito, and after a few months, decided to move to Harper and Romaine.  So we lived in a duplex with my mom’s best friend from high-school, her husband, and their new baby. We were on the bottom, they were on the top.

Karl: Wow.

Sarah: Yeah, right there! *points down the street* My dad decided that he wanted to become a producer, and he met some friend who said, “Oh I want to be that too.” So everyday they would meet up at the Farmer’s Market and have meetings with each other and see how they could create this company.

Karl: What a place to brainstorm. That place is fantastic.

Sarah: Yeah, so we lived on Harper until I was about 6. I remember when Gelson’s was Mayfair back then, and that neighborhood was pretty seedy. I was really young, I just remember my parents saying, “We’re not going to let you go up there by yourself.” And you know Basix?  It used to be a small little bakery. We called it “the croissant store” because on weekends, we would get chocolate croissants that were the best because they would melt in your mouth.

Karl: Describe the Santa Monica Strip as you remember it.

Sarah: There wasn’t a lot going on. It was sort of seedy… 4-story office buildings… homeless people… trannies. We hung out a lot in front of our house. We did a lot of hop-scotch ’cause my best friend lived down the street. Our upstairs neighbor used to pull his car onto our front lawn and just park it there. My dad hated it.

Karl: Sounds like any other American neighborhood with kids in the street and everything.

Sarah: Yeah. There weren’t a ton of other kids, but I had my best friend. Then in August of 1986, we moved to another duplex in Hancock Park, on Mansfield and Beverly.  Those are all duplexes over there, where all the Hasidic Jews are. *chuckles* It was different over there. I went to Third Street Elementary School…  Do you know where that is, on 3rd and June?

Karl: I’ll probably know of it more when my girl gets into Kindergarten.

Sarah: Yeah. And if you want to send her there, just know that everybody is Korean there now. So she’ll learn a lot of Korean.

Karl: This is where you first stared skating?

Sarah: Yes. I remember my first skateboard, it was green plastic and was shaped like a fish. It said “Scampi” on it! I don’t know what that means. It had really loose trucks.

Karl: I had an orange one just like that. Those were great!

Sarah: I’d get home from school and I was on my skateboard for hours. I skated everyday from the time I was 7 until about 15 or 16. You know my boards got much nicer and I’d go much further… But I was a real tomboy.

Karl: I remember all the girl skaters when I was young. What did we call them? *thinks* I think we used to call them “bobbies.” They were always cute and loved to show us up.

Sarah: I didn’t have any guy friends who were skaters. And the funny thing is, I grew up in a very Hasidic neighborhood… I mean, I’m Jewish, but I’m not that religious.

Karl: Not that Jewish.

Sarah: *laughs* Well, I’m such a people person, and I was so fascinated by these Jews in my neighborhood. I always wanted to talk to them and get to know them, and they were so rude – always protecting their children from me. It’s not like I was going to corrupt them or anything. I used to try to tell them, “You know, I’m Jewish too!” But they couldn’t give a shit, ’cause in their eyes I’m not Jewish. That was always frustrating for me. I would come home and ask my parents, “How come they don’t like me?”

Karl: Did your parents associate with them or have Hasidic friends?

Sarah: Oh, God no.

Waiter: Everything okay?

Karl: More napkins, and another glass of cab, please.

So where did you run off to then? When you left LA, I mean.

Sarah: Oh… I was like, “How did you know I ran away from home?”

Karl: Did you? *laughs* No, I meant for school, or when you really left.

Sarah: I left to go to Humboldt State. *groans*

Karl: Not a fan?

Sarah: Well, I applied to a lot of schools on the east coast and chickened out. I was still very connected to my parents and I just wasn’t ready, so I thought, “Well, I’ll go somewhere on the West Coast.” I didn’t get into Santa Cruz or Santa Barbara, but I got into Humboldt. I had lived in the big city my whole life so I thought, “Let’s see what’s it’s like to live in the Redwood Forest.”

*Sarah’s cell phone buzzes*

Karl: You can take that.

Sarah: *looks at phone* No, it’s just a text. If it was gonna be a hot girl, I was gonna have to answer it. *laughs* You know, I’m on my game right now. So I was at Humboldt for 2-years. It rained a lot, there were all these hippies, and it wasn’t challenging enough.

*Waitress sets more ikura in front of Karl, Sarah nearly spits out wine*

Sarah: God, you really like those things! You know, I think I’ve tried one like that and it kind of just popped in my mouth.

Karl: Did it gross you out? Here, try one.

Sarah: Is it the flavor you like?

Karl: You know what, they’re really good for you. They’re incredibly healthy, packed with vitamins.

Sarah: Okay, I’m gonna just take, like… *takes 3 eggs with chop sticks* So these are like, unfertilized eggs? I’m not going to get pregnant am I? *takes bite*

Karl: Let’s hope not.

Sarah: Ewww, *makes face* that is so gross!

Karl: Sorry. Thought you might like them.

Sarah: You like that? Eck! *sticks out tongue* Sorry, that’s rude. Anyway, I wanted to get more into singing and song-writing. So I thought I would move back to Los Angeles, live at home, and just go to all the clubs and play music. I moved back to LA, but ended up getting in touch with a family friend who lives in Western Massachusetts. And she was like, “Whoa, whoa, whoa… Excuse me… You just came out of the closet, you’re a singer-songwriter, and you want to experience something new and exciting? Well you should move to Northampton, Massachusetts!” *laughs* “It’s the lesbian capital of the world! And also, it has a huge folk/rock music scene.”

Karl: It does I think. Right? And Vermont too.

Sarah: Yes, Northampton is known for having a ton of folk/rock musicians come through there. Within a month, I packed up my life and moved out there at 19.

Karl: Man, what a change.

Sarah: My grandparents are… *pauses* wealthy. My grandpa was a CPA, he lived in Bel Air. He set up a college fund for me when I was little and my parents decided, “Well, if you’re not going to use it on college, you can use it to help yourself live while you pursue what you want to do.” So I had all this money at my leisure. Granted, it’s a lot less expensive to live in Northampton, but I basically was working 2 to 3 days a week at Whole Foods Market, living in a 3-bedroom apartment by myself.

Karl: Wow. You made it count.

Sarah: *laughs* Yeah! The days I wasn’t working, I’d sit in my room in the freezing cold and would write songs, but was living this adult life. I had this great apartment. I painted all the rooms, decorated it… Looking back, I’m like, “God, I was really spoiled!” And since I would take the money each month to live off of, I really barely had to work.’

Karl: Well, to a 19-year-old, it sounds fantastic.

Sarah: Yeah, but it really fucked me up, ’cause now I’m 30, and I’m like, *obnoxious whiney voice* “I don’t wanna work!” I’m disappointed in myself for being that way. When I am working, I’m a really hard worker. All the PA’ing I did for all those years, they called me, “Uber PA” I was the best. But if I don’t need to work, or I’m on unemployment, I get really fucking lazy. And that’s where I’ve been, so I gotta get out of that rut. *bites into tempura* Mmmmm, I think that’s kabocha squash!

Karl: Nice… Where’d you pull that out of? You know squash I guess. *laughs* Right, you worked at Whole Foods.

Sarah: I did, that’s how I know it! That is totally kabocha a squash! *eats the rest* So, this is 2002 now, 2-years after I moved to Northampton, I started to get a little restless, and I decided to enroll in Naropa University.  Do you know Naropa?

Karl: No, tell me about it.

Sarah: It’s like a small, private, Buddhist, American school, super new-agey… It was started by all the beatniks like Allen Ginsberg and Jack Kerouac, and they all started this Naropa Institute. Now, when I think about it, it sounds a little corny, but I was really into it back then. So I left my community of Massachusenites and moved to Boulder. I’m 22 now, still single. I was getting really great grades because it too wasn’t super challenging. Really great people, but I only went there for two semesters and changed my major 4 times in those 2 semesters. So I felt restless again. Once I left Naropa, I visited Massachusetts and low and behold, I met a girl in the week that I was there. So I thought, “Well, I don’t really know what I’m doing with my life, so I should just move back to Northampton!” *laughs*

Karl: Well, that’s a good enough reason.

Sarah: Ew, I smell fish. I guess it’s all over the place… I’m eating it!

Karl: *laughs*

Sarah: No, it was that smell, sort of like vagina smell.  Like bad-vagina smell…  You know what I mean.  Yuck. So I moved back to Northampton and we lived together for a year.

Karl: What did you do there, now I mean?

Sarah: Well, I’ve always been a big fan of uniforms. So I decided that I was going to get a job based on the kind of uniform I got to wear… I thought, “I’ll be a mailman!”

Karl: Don’t tell me you got to be a mailman!

Sarah: I did!

Karl: Awww! Jealous! You get to be outside, it’s a union gig, it pays well!

Sarah: Well, I was what they called a casual employee, which runs for 3-month blocks. So I did 3-blocks in 9-months. The first 3-months, I was… the janitor! *laughs*

Karl: *laughs* Everyone’s got to have a job like that at some point.

Sarah: I know it’s so funny ’cause I’m so horrible at cleaning things. But the next 3-months I got a truck.

Karl: The mail truck?

Sarah: The Mail truck, where you sit on the other side. Here’s the thing though, as a casual employee you don’t get a uniform.

Karl: Oh man, which was the whole point!

Sarah: Exactly! But I begged them to let me wear a uniform. So I was the only casual employee who wore a uniform. *laughs* I still have it!

Karl: Of course you do, you have to hang onto that sucker!

Sarah: It’s not very flattering on me, you know, the crotch goes down to my knees, but it’s fun.

*sips wine*

The other 3-months was getting there at 4 in the morning, in the middle of winter, and lifting pallets of mail from there to there.

Karl: Manual labor.

Sarah: Right. I’d get out at 1:00 and then sleep all afternoon, it was horrible. Then I decided I wasn’t into my girlfriend anymore, and I started to think, “Maybe I should move back to LA, I don’t know what I’m doing here anymore.” And, I just… *long pause* did. So in the Spring of 2005, I moved back to LA. And I’ll tell ya… *takes bite of food* I haven’t regretted it since.

Karl: So describe how things were different when you returned.

Sarah: Well, if I can back up for just a second, when I originally moved to Massachusetts, my mom actually moved to Philadelphia. My dad had just left her, and she was getting divorced, so she randomly moved to Philly. So I came back thinking I could just crash with family. But my dad didn’t have room, because he had just had two little girls with his new wife, so the next best thing was to move in with my grandparents.

Karl: Out in Bel Air.

Sarah: So I still had somewhat of a nest egg, just residual money, probably $10K or $15K to play with. So I moved in with my grandparents, and their pool, and their many gardens. I basically spent everyday lying on the roof in my bikini. I didn’t have a ton of friends out here. Most had moved away for college and were in grad school, and I didn’t feel like I needed a bunch of friends. I was just living in my own oblivion.

Karl: Are you writing now?

Sarah: I don’t think I was very much. Well, I was writing a little bit. I wrote my hit song in ’05, so here and there. Mostly I would go to the gym, and would lay out. But in 2006, I started feeling pressure to get a job, ’cause I was running out of money.

Karl: The J word.

Sarah: I know, God, one of those. *rolls eyes* So I got a job at the Whole Foods in West Hollywood cutting cheese and meats for famous people. I liked it alright, I only worked 3 or 4 days a week, but I started to get my game on, and started dating a lot of girls. The Summer of 2006 was girl central. Here I was, working in the center of West Hollywood, but I didn’t have a ton of friends, and I didn’t drink… at all. I’ve just started drinking more in the last year. So I never really wanted to go out to the bars to meet people. So I started meeting girls, and then I started dating a few of them, and one of them became my girlfriend. And I finally moved out of my grandparents house and moved in with her in Burbank. I was also doing full-on commercial PA work by now, just commercial, commercial, commercial. It was really good money, and then nothing, and then really good money…

Karl: The “LA way.”

Sarah: More like the “Sarah way.” I’m always really rich, or really broke, *pauses* so soon I’ll be really rich! *laughs* So we broke up and she moved back to Miami, and then I got my job for 2-years as an office manager at a production company. We were on the corner of Wilcox and Hollywood in the old Pacific Theaters building . The longest job I’ve ever held after the 9-month Post Office job. I knew that I just needed a job to pay the bills while I pursued my artsy fartsy thing. But I wasn’t really pursuing it, that’s the thing. I don’t know if I have ADD or motivational issues, but I just get so excited about doing something and then I don’t do anything about doing it.

Karl: I think you’re just an “artist.”

Sarah: Exactly. And I think it’s so funny that my mom is a life coach, but she can’t help me at all. I moved to Wilcox, between Willoughby and Waring…  Right next to the DMV! *laughs* It was a really ugly street but it was a cute apartment.

Karl: I like it down there. I like the grit, I dig it down there.

Sarah: I don’t like grit. All my friends are like, “Move to Silverlake, move to Echo Park!” When I think about those places it reminds me of when I was younger and feeling like those were dirty places.  You know, with poor, dangerous people.

Karl: Well, now in 2011, tell me some of the changes you’ve seen in the area since you’ve been back.

Sarah: Well… *thinks*

Karl: Do you go out more now?

Sarah: Well, since I broke up with my last girlfriend about a year ago, I’ve been going out to the Abbey and all the clubs all around there a lot. Well, they just did that whole island of grass and trees on Santa Monica. They’ve really fixed it up and I remember thinking, *in snobby voice* “Oh… this is getting classy.”

Karl: How would you describe the community here in West Hollywood?

Sarah: That’s an interesting question because I’m still trying to find my community here. I don’t hang around the heart of West Hollywood because I don’t feel welcome. It’s such a boy’s town. I think there’s a little bit of snootiness, and possessiveness of a lot of the gay men that I see walking around. Sort of like, “This is our territory.” And I’m like, “Hey, I’m gay too!” It’s like the Orthodox Jewish thing. When I’m around them I feel like they don’t want me around at all because I’m a woman, but then there’s a part of me that thinks, “Don’t you want me around because I’m also gay?” We’re the same, we’re both homos! I’ve met some really friendly guys, but I sort of feel invisible. Which makes sense I guess, because a lot of them could care less that there’s a woman there.

Karl: So is this walking around, or living here, or when you’re out on the town at bars?

Sarah: Well, going to the Abbey is always fun because everyone is so drunk that they love you no matter what. I volunteer for AIDS Lifecycle, and a few weeks ago they were doing a campaign to promote a big gay and lesbian reunion party they were having the following day. They asked me, because I’m so personable, if I would sit on a stationary bicycle on the corner of Robertson and Santa Monica, on a Friday night when everyone’s going out to the bars, to try and get them to come to this party. I thought, “Oh my God, that’s going to be so much fun! Everybody’s going to want to talk to me and I’ll tell them all about it.” They barely even noticed me.

Karl: You’re right there on that busy corner, riding a bike?

Sarah: I’m riding, dressed in full bike gear, yelling to people, and they could give a shit. They just totally ignored me. And then I was like, “Oh yeah, they don’t care about girls.” I mean, hey, it’s better than living down in Orange County where everyone’s super uptight and waspy and conservative. My favorite area to hang out in is around Curson and Beverly by Terroni.

Karl: By the Pan Pacific Park.

Sarah: I like to call that the “Struggling Actor’s Neighborhood.” There’s a mixture of everything there, families, even some Orthodox Jews which I guess I’ll take. *laughs* My real community is spread out. I have 5 close friends now but one lives in Koreatown, one lives in Santa Monica, one’s downtown… But when we do meet up, we usually meet up at the Abbey and that area. You know, this is sort of embarrassing but I really like hanging out at the Grove. On weekends, my dad, my sister and I would ride our bicycles to the Farmer’s Market and get a donut and orange juice from Bob’s.

Karl: *laughs* That actually warms my heart because I walk my kids there all the time. We get a fruit smoothies and go look at the fountain.

Sarah: It’s a little overcrowded, and they need an American Eagle.

Karl: It’s a great place to bring out-of-towners because you can park on the roof, and get an immaculate 360-degree view of LA. So you live just 2-blocks from here, what do you think of this particular area? *looks out window*

Sarah: Well, I live with my mom now. She’s been back for 3-years I think. I’ve been living on her couch since September.

Karl: How is that working out?

Sarah: I’m looking forward to having my own place again. She’s a great person, and we’re really close but…

Karl: But you’re living with your mom, I get it.

Sarah: She’s always like, “You don’t have a job yet!” I feel like a teenager again. *laughs*

Karl: Is the area heading in a good direction or a bad direction?

Sarah: Heading?

Karl: The way the city is evolving?

Sarah: You mean how it’s getting more upscale?

Karl: Well, is it getting more upscale?

Sarah: Yeah, I think so. I would say a good direction. I don’t remember how seedy it really was when I was younger, but my parents say to me, “when we lived there it was not a nice neighborhood.” As long as it doesn’t get too ritzy.

Karl: And what would you like to see more of?

Sarah: More girl hang outs! It’s such a boy’s town. I would love to see the presence of a lesbian community here ’cause it’s just nonexistent. A coffee shop where they all flock to, or just a few more places. I went into the Starbucks near the Ramada on Santa Monica Blvd. and I was the only woman in there. It was all guys.

Karl: Where are the current girl hangouts?

Sarah: In Long Beach! Who wants to move to Long Beach? Everybody says, “Oh, you gotta move to Long Beach, that’s where the girls are at.”

Karl: How about Palms?

Sarah: I’ve actually never been there, but I would think, if anything, it would be more older women. It’s sad, I really don’t know where all the lesbians are. On Friday nights, they come out, but a lot of them aren’t very cute. On Fridays, Here has Truck Stop Girls Night, right next to the Abbey, and it’s just not girls my type. They’re from the suburbs, they’re from out there, a lot of pacific islander, latino, I’m more into white girls and black girls. I think the girls I like all live in Boulder, CO. I am so into Earthy, crunchy girls and they barely exist here. You know what else I would like to see more of, more bike lanes. Coming from Boulder, almost every street has bike lanes, and you could ride your bike anywhere.

Karl: Yeah, here you’re gonna be killed.

Sarah: Exactly. I rarely ride my bike in this neighborhood. If I ride it, I go out to Santa Monica where it’s less congested. If we had bike lanes it would really change the way I interact with this city.

Karl: How about less of?

Sarah: Less cat poop. But that’s inevitable, I love my cat. And I don’t like how they’re putting in all those cameras to catch us when we go through the yellow light.

Karl: Yeah, that’s a major issue for a lot of people.

Sarah: I mostly stop when I think it’s about to turn yellow, but I have friends who have gotten $400 tickets.

Karl: *points at self*

Sarah: Really?!

Karl: I got hit at La Cienega and Washington, down by all those Culver City galleries. Yep, got my picture in the mail, $400 or something. Brutal. Yes, those suck. I think they’ve slowed them down though, you get more of a cushion because so many people were bitching about them. I remember when they first came out, all this infidelity was coming to light because people were being photographed with someone else in the car.

Sarah: That’s awesome. Oh, I also like how they’re changing all the parking meters to let you use your debit or credit card. ‘Cause who has that many quarters on them all the time? That’s great, but I hate how a quarter will get you 7-minutes. Really? That use to get you an hour. And even though I’m guilty of it sometimes, I will finish writing a text, but only at red lights. I see people texting while driving, and swerving, and driving really slow, and it makes me so upset. But then I think, “Well, Sarah, if you didn’t text at all, you could get upset with that, but the fact that you still, every once in awhile just finish up that text…

Karl: Yeah, we’re all guilty of that, and it’s awful!

Sarah: Not my mom. If we pull up next to someone texting, she’ll go up to them and, *motions to roll window down* “Stop texting!” And it’s so embarrassing! If I see her about to do it I’ll slow down, or speed up.

Karl: *laughs* Good for her. I’m tempted to do that myself sometimes. So where do you see the city 10 to 20 years from now?

Sarah: Oh man, that’s weird, I never think about the future. I mean I think about mine, but never my city’s future. In Hollywood, they recently put up the new W Hotel, and it seems like they have a lot of new, upscale structures, so I like the direction it’s going. I never felt comfortable in Hollywood because it was always so seedy and gross, but they’re really doing good things. I’d like to see more parks. Pan Pacific Park is great, and there are other little parks, but sometimes you just need to get away.

Karl: Have you ever taken the bus here?

Sarah: The very first time I rode the bus in Los Angeles was with my girl-scout troop. The troop leader decided we were going to take an adventure. We got on the bus, and after a few minutes these two men get into an altercation. And one of the guys starts, *points finger through jacket* “I’ve got a gun, I’ve got a gun!” So my girl-scout troop leader starts freaking out because she’s got 15-girl scouts with her. She screams at the driver to stop the bus, and he’s like, “I can’t, lady!” But she yells, “Stop this bus!” So he stops, and she pulls us all off the bus, and I remember thinking, “So that’s why we’ve never taken the bus before.” About a month ago was the second time I took a bus in Los Angeles.

Karl: Alright, progress.

Sarah: And you know what, there was a totally crazy lady on the bus and she was looking at me and saying really strange things. I should take the bus more often, you see some people you would never see.

Karl: Will you be here 20-years from now, Sarah, or do you think you’ll get restless and take off again?

Sarah: This city has been good to me, and I love it. But I’m a hypochondriac so I think I’ll probably be dead in 20-years. If I’m not, I would like to see myself on a ranch in New Mexico with my fucking hot wife and our two horses, and we have a recording studio in the back of our really nice ranch house, and we just play guitar and have sex all the time.

*sips wine*

And eat lots of chocolate!

Silver Fox
7″ wide x 5″ high
Hand-cut vellum
_____________________________

Karl: It’s a warm Friday morning, December 10th, and I’m here on the corner of Flores and Santa Monica, having breakfast at Basix with?

Silver Fox: Silver Fox

Karl: Cute!  So what is your occupation?

Silver Fox: I’m retired.

Karl: You’re a socialite?

Silver Fox: I’m a socialite, I’m a retired socialite.  My occupation, at this time, is to help the elderly.   I help several holocaust victims that I drive around, I grocery shop for them, and I take them to the doctor’s or the drug store.  I just spend time with them.

Karl: Are they local?  Near here?

Silver Fox: They live in the Fairfax area.

Karl: That’s nice of you.

Silver Fox: No, actually, it’s a gift for me.  It is.  I’m very blessed.

Karl: You’re married?

Silver Fox: I’m married, two children, three grandchildren of my own. I’ve adopted a set of twins because their grandmother died before they were born. They needed a Grandma, so they call me “Na-na,” and they’re six-years-old.

Karl: And where do they live?

Silver Fox: They live in Chatsworth. They come to the pool sometimes in the summer.

Karl: They’re lucky to have you.

Silver Fox: I’m very lucky!  They’re adorable!

Karl: Please tell me a little bit about yourself, and what you do in your free time, your hobbies, those sorts of things.

Silver Fox: This is my hobby. Going to the gym, and spending time with people who I can help.   I’m paying it forward.  I love people, and they’re my hobby.   Anything I can do to help somebody, even just sit and listen to whatever their problems are, that’s what I like to do.

Karl: *sips coffee* And what brought you to West Hollywood?

Silver Fox: I came here from Chicago.  It was very cold. *laughs* I actually grew up here, in California, in Los Angeles, by the gym.

Karl: Oh, I didn’t know that about you.

Silver Fox: Yes, I grew up and went to school here, over by La Cienega and 18th Street.   So I feel like I’ve gone full circle now.   I moved to Chicago in 1967, where I met and married by husband. We lived there for 16-years, but we came back here because I complained about the winters bitterly, and I couldn’t stand sliding down my steps one more time.   So he got a job out here and said, “We’re moving.”  And I said, “Oh I don’t think I can go.”  (Because all of our best friends are in Chicago).  ”You’re the one who wants to leave,” he said.  ”Maybe… But I don’t think I can leave them, so you’ll have to go and I’ll stay with them.” *laughs* But we came here in January of ’79 and lived in The Valley, which I hated, because it’s dead. I like the action of this city. My mother lived in my building, she actually lived in the unit that I live in now.

Karl: No kidding.

Silver Fox: I was here a lot visiting my mom and spending a lot of time here, and I love being in this area. There’s life here, its fabulous. When her building was converting, I was working for a law firm that was representing the developer of her building. So I worked with the lawyers, the Department of Real Estate, and the developer.  They needed somebody who lived there to buy into the building before the city converted it so it didn’t look like it was a phony deal.  I was working for the law firm, so I asked my mother and they offered to help my mother buy the unit.

Karl: What an opportunity.

Silver Fox: Well, she didn’t want to own anything, so she sold it to us. And so we came from The Valley to the city. Happy, happy, happy!

Karl: Wow, that worked out so well.

Silver Fox: *laughs* Fabulous!  She wanted to travel, and we wanted to come into town where there are so many people on the street.

Karl: Yeah, that’s what attracts a lot of people here I think.

Silver Fox: Yes, even if you don’t go out, you know it’s there.

Karl: Was it like that in the area you grew up?

Silver Fox: Well, this was a totally different area at that time and I didn’t come to West Hollywood often. But this area developed over the years into a collection of so many different people. You know, different religions, different races, different desires, different interests… It really became a very eclectic group. It’s all very exciting to me, I love the diversity. It wasn’t always like that, but I didn’t live in this area so I didn’t know much about it as a kid. But when my mother moved here, it was the perfect location for her. She got around a lot and travelled a lot. She lived in her building for, I don’t know, maybe ten years before they converted it. It didn’t look the way it looks now.

Karl: So was it a step up?

Silver Fox: Oh it was definitely a step up, they put a whole new face on it.

Karl: It looked like a stereo-typical rental?

Silver Fox: Yes, it looked like an apartment building. The pool didn’t have a gate, and the place didn’t have a fence around it, it didn’t have any of the trimmings around it or the landscaping. It was an interesting building at the time when it was a rental because many actors lived there. There was a lot of action, and a lot of people have lived in that building. I meet lots of people who lived there at one time or another. It was a lot of people who come to Hollywood to find their way, actors, writers, directors. There were lots of different people. There was also at one time, (now this is gossip, I don’t know it for a fact myself) but there was some sort of Israeli mafia, and there was a murder, and there was a body floating in the pool.

*waiter delivers omelets*

Karl: So tell me what sorts of changes you’ve seen since moving here with your husband. How has West Hollywood developed since then?

Silver Fox: Well, it’s very busy. As people escape from various parts of the world, they come to this area first. It’s actually the Fairfax area that attracts them. They move into West Hollywood, they assimilate here, and then they move out. So when I was working for this law firm, it was real estate law, so I got to see where the money was coming from. It was coming from the Russians, the Iranians, many of the Asian areas, the ethnicities of the area are very interesting. Everybody knew where they could go to get help, and they knew how to work the system.  So they moved here, into West Hollywood.  They came with money, hidden wherever, (typically Jewish people). They bought buildings, they got comfortable, they assimilated, and they moved out. So I’ve watched many ethnic groups move in and out of here.

Karl: Yeah, I guess so.

Silver Fox: So many stores changed to meet the needs of the people living in the community.

Karl: So it hasn’t always been Russian-centric?

Silver Fox: Oh no, before the Russians were the Iranians, and before them were many people from Korea, who then moved into Koreatown. It’s really been interesting watching the turnover. So then you had all these different stores to meet the needs of all these people. It wasn’t as busy as it is now. Some of these stores have been here as long as I can remember. There’s a beauty shop down on the other side of Crescent Heights. It’s owned by, I don’t know, she’s Chinese, or Korean, she’s been there forever.  My mother used to go to her.

Karl: Really?

Silver Fox: Yes. And all their clientele are elderly so they’re dying off. But she’s been here 30, 35 years.  There’s another shop right here, *points down Santa Monica Blvd.* same thing, it’s been here forever, same owner.

Karl: Do you go there out of loyalty, to your mom I mean?

Silver Fox: To that shop?  No, but I do stop in because I know the people, because they were so kind to my mother. So I stop and I say hello, how are you?  And I bring them some candy or something. It’s kind of nice for me too because they knew my mother. My mother’s been gone ten years. They were very kind to her.

Waiter: How’s everything you guys?

Karl: Delicious. Thank you.

Silver Fox: My mother finally went to the Jewish Home for the Aging, which is in The Valley. Even though they had a beauty shop on the premises, she would not let anybody do her hair, or the waxing of her face. So I used to pick her up every weekend and bring her into town to go to her beauty shop, then take her to lunch, she’d stay for dinner with us, then we’d take her back to The Valley.

Karl: Aw, that’s sweet.

Silver Fox: This neighborhood has been a congregate for gays for a long time, but it wasn’t as concentrated as it is now.  People are out more, they came out over the years. They weren’t always out. But they were more comfortable here, and certainly now they’re really comfortable. It’s a wonderful, free area for people to live in and be who you are.

Karl: I think even that has changed over the last ten years. I can only speak for the last decade because that’s as long as I’ve lived here, but it seems it’s gotten even more comfortable than it was even ten years ago.

Silver Fox: Oh, absolutely. Well, it’s more acceptable. You don’t find as much prejudice as you did ten years ago.

Karl: Well, maybe. Yeah, that’s probably true.

Silver Fox: So that makes a difference. And all these bars have opened up to meet their needs, to cater to the community.

Karl: Has that community changed much? I mean the identity of West Hollywood as a community?

Silver Fox: I think the identity changes with the people who come from different countries. That constantly changes the community.

Karl: Maybe it’s because I have kids, but the place really seems to boom with more children now.

Silver Fox: I think that with, particularly the Russian Jewish community, many of them are orthodox with lots of children.  They build these houses for their families. Even the houses on Crescent Heights, those big beautiful homes you see going south, those homes are built there for mommy and daddy, the children and their children. They could have five kids, and 15 to 20 grandchildren. This is not unusual. It’s also what’s going on in the Pico, La Cienega/Robertson area. So yeah, I think you’re getting more children. I think the parks attract them, and we have these great parks. That little Kings Road park makes a big difference. And then you have Plummer Park and that great one on San Vicente.

Karl: West Hollywood Park?

Silver Fox: Yes, which is very busy. You see a lot of children there. So I think that the diversity of people, and the people who like to live in the city prefer this area, and don’t mind living here with children around. And The Valley is not what it used to be. You used to be able to go there and find cheaper homes. That is not the case. People who would’ve ordinarily moved with their family out to that area to find something much less expensive, it’s not possible.

Karl: No kidding.

Silver Fox: Not in the areas that you would want to live in. So that’s why I think that families stay in town more. They put their kids in private school, which was not the accepted way of life years ago, but it is now. They put their kid’s name on a list from the time that they’re pregnant, and they wait to get in, and they pay a fortune for preschool and kindergarten. There’s a lot of money in this area. And the nice thing about that is that people seem to care about their property. You can see that by just driving up and down the street.

Karl: You mean more so than say, The Valley?

Silver Fox: No, I mean more so than years ago.

Karl: Ah. Okay.

Silver Fox: What I have found personally, is that gay people really care about their property. And they’re very creative and very talented, and they put money into their property, which only makes the whole neighborhood better. On the corner of Sweetzer and Waren, that building on the corner, you know that beautiful building, the one that was Charlie Chaplin’s.

Karl: The wood one? Yeah, that place is gorgeous.

Silver Fox: Gorgeous! But before these guys moved in there, that place was a dump! They had all sorts of trash on the Sweetzer side, whoever owned it didn’t paint it, it was just a mess. And these gentlemen moved in there and what they did to that building… they restored it. It’s gorgeous, it’s a pleasure. I have often wanted to stop inside and ask, “Can I just come in and look?”

Karl: Yeah, everybody points that place out. There’s another one down here… *points down Kings Road*

Silver Fox: The Schindler House?

Karl: No, not the Schindler House, it’s on the Northeast corner of Kings and Willoughby, Rootenberg-Markham or something, does that sound right? Anyway, I’ve wanted to get a look inside that place for years but there’s nothing on it. It’s a mid-century looking place, stretches all the way back, it’s just really wild inside.

Silver Fox: It’s an apartment building?

Karl: There’s bricks in the front. It’s not that amazing from the outside but you can tell just by looking at it that it’s got to have some treasures inside of it.

Silver Fox: The other big change in this neighborhood is all of the designers that have moved in on Melrose.

Karl: Yeah. No, I think that’s fantastic. It used to be all antique stores, at least when I moved here.

Silver Fox: Right, certainly nothing that you would be particularly excited about. But what’s happened with the Design Center and everything moving East on Melrose, it’s unbelievable. I mean, who ever knew that we would be living in this neighborhood?

Karl: No, it’s fantastic, except for the employees running back and forth across the street.

Silver Fox: Well, you get that in Beverly Hills too.

Karl: Yeah, well… I’m always dodging the Marc Jacobs guys sprinting across Melrose with fur coats in their arms when I’m coming home from work. *laughs*

Silver Fox: Yes, but it’s such a nice addition to this neighborhood. Now how long it’s going to last is another story. This is such a fickle town, it’s the same with the restaurants. You know, they’re really popular, really big, everybody goes, and then a couple of years later, they’re all gone. Because the entertainment community moves and their desires change. Unlike New York, Boston, Chicago, where restaurants stay forever, neighborhood-places that you’ve been going to, where you grew up and are still there, family owned, we don’t have that. And if it gets old, we tear it down.

Karl: Have things gotten better or worse in your opinion?

Silver Fox: The traffic is worse, but I think the community is better. I think it’s much better, and prettier. If you walk down Croft, or Orlando…

Karl: Orlando is beautiful.

Silver Fox: Beautiful! The homes on Orlando are just gorgeous. It’s one of the nicest streets. And on Harper, those duplexes are so well-kept. My preference for driving is to take Harper from the East just because it’s so pretty. But the traffic is appalling.

Karl: Yes, it is. I don’t know what they’re going to do about it.

Silver Fox: I don’t know that they can do anything because they keep allowing building. As long as they keep allowing that, they’re going to have terrible traffic problems which we already have. Santa Monica Blvd. cannot handle what’s going on here. If you go East where Target is, they’re going to tear down the Trader Joe’s in that area, they’re building a big complex, housing with commercial on the bottom.

Karl: Really?

Silver Fox: Like, 92-units.

Karl: They’re going to take down the Yukon Mining Company?

Silver Fox: They’re going to take all of that down. Across from Target, there’s a MacDonald’s and a Carl’s Jr., all of that is coming down for a big complex. Now after 12:30/1:00, you cannot go East on Santa Monica Blvd., it’s bumper to bumper. How can they allow that kind of building for residential people? The city has to be on the take.

*Conversation pauses as fire-trucks zoom by, sirens blaring*

Karl: This street (Santa Monica) is just unbearable.

Silver Fox: The Grove is new too. I would’ve voted against it had I known it was going up, but of course now I’m happy that it’s there. But thinking only of the traffic, I would’ve voted against it.

Karl: Yeah, you can’t get anywhere on Fairfax now. I’m a big fan though. I like it there.

Silver Fox: It has revitalized the Farmer’s Market.  That’s been there since I was a child, which is a very long time ago.

Karl: Yes, I love it there, I go there all the time.

Silver Fox: The meat market was there when I was growing up, the same meat market. It’s like old home.

Karl: It’s a stop on the LA Tour now.

Silver Fox: That’s part of the problem, because it’s so crowded. We stay away on the weekends, we don’t go near it. If we want to see a movie, we certainly don’t go on a Friday or Saturday night because they charge a fortune. So we go during the week on senior prices. We’re lucky enough to be able to go during the week. You know, they’re installing a “Mommy’s Day” there so mothers can take their babies to the movies.

Karl: Yes, I’m familiar. I wish they would implement something like that on the airlines.  So it’s just a plane full of kids, and all nurf inside everywhere, with toys and mats and things.

Silver Fox: They could play kids movies and things.

Karl: Yes, exactly. Like one flight a day that is just all families, then people don’t have to deal with the screaming kids.  Maybe Disney can run with that.  They could paint “Toy Story” on the outside of the plane or something.

Silver Fox: I would love to go on a plane where there are no children. Now, when I go to a restaurant, if I want to be with kids, and of course I love children, then fine, but I don’t want to go fine-dining and spend a lot of money and have kids there. And people bring their children everywhere. That’s different. We never went out with kids.

Karl: Well, being a culprit of that myself, there are some days that you get home from work late, it’s too late to find a sitter, and you just need to get out of the house, you gotta take ‘em out and hope that they behave.

Silver Fox: But you’re not going to fine-dining restaurants.

Karl: No, just the local stuff here. Is this fine dining?

Silver Fox: No.

Karl: Well, the owner may disagree with you, but we bring them here often. But you’re referring to Mastro’s or something.

Silver Fox: Right.

Karl: No, I wouldn’t dare bring the kids there.

Silver Fox: But people are. We went to Flemings in The Valley, which is very nice. The place was packed with children. How could they pay those prices to order a meal for a child?

Karl: I guess families here have money to blow.

Silver Fox: Well, if your parents came to visit, and they wanted to take you and the kids to a really nice restaurant…

Karl: Isn’t that why they built The Grove? *laughs*

Silver Fox: That’s what you see happening, the grandparents, and the parents, and the children, and the little children. And children run around restaurants. That’s another change. Parents allow their kids to run around restaurants.

Karl: Yes, that’s problematic. I actually kicked a little girl by accident once because she was under our table at Asakuma Rice.

*sips coffee*

So, what would you like to see more of?

Silver Fox: I’d like to see more parking. It’s very hard to have guests.

Karl: Right, you have to go out and grab parking spaces with your cars.

Silver Fox: Or ask people in the building if they’re not going to be around, or if they have two spaces and won’t be using one. Once every 8-months, I have a card game at my house. So I go around and I ask different people if I can use their space from like 11:00 to 4:00. I have eight women coming, and they’re getting older, and it’s harder to walk. It’s hard to invite anybody over. So I would like to see more parking in the neighborhood. Even with permit parking, then you have to go to the city, and are you guaranteed there will be a space? No.

Karl: We lived a block up here *points up Flores Street* and that’s all permit parking, and there’s still nowhere to park. And we only had one space with our apartment so I’d have to battle for a parking space…

Silver Fox: …all over the neighborhood.

Karl: How about less of?

Silver Fox: Less traffic and less helicopters. Oh my God, every night I am out on my patio going, “What is going on in the neighborhood?” I realize that the helicopters are there to help but sometimes it’s really annoying.

Karl: People seem to flee here after committing a crime? *laughs*

Silver Fox: Or they commit the crime here. We have lots of robberies, burglaries. This is particularly a bad time. I remember the last time people were out of work, I would walk out of the building and people would be sleeping in their cars.

Karl: Yeah. That’s still going on.

Silver Fox: Is it? I don’t see that. Well, I leave later, and I go out the garage. I used to walk in the mornings, so I used to see a lot of things which I don’t see now.

Karl: We had a “regular,” years ago who used to sleep outside of Kings Road Park. I haven’t seen her in a long time though. She cut me off at the Arco recently, but I haven’t seen her parked anywhere.

Silver Fox: The other thing you’re seeing a lot more of are the people with baskets and their bags of cans. A lot more of that than I’ve seen in previous years.

Karl: How are we on time by the way? I know you have a beauty appointment.

Silver Fox: It’s five to ten, we’re okay. How are you?

Karl: I’m good, I have all morning. Are you happy here? Has the area been good?

Silver Fox: I love this area. Love it!

Karl: Good. Me too.

Silver Fox: For awhile we were looking out by our kids, but everything we looked at couldn’t compare with this area. It’s just such a different culture. And the idea that I can sit on my patio and look at trees and squirrels and the sky in the middle of the city, and not hear anything, it’s amazing.

Karl: Just those helicopters.

Silver Fox: *chuckles* There is nothing that we saw that compares with this. Not a thing like this kind of lifestyle that is offered to us, where I can walk to the corner and go to the grocery store, or walk here and have dinner.

Karl: Was there any adjustment period for you coming back after living in Chicago? Or did you just sink right back into it?

Silver Fox: Well, when we came, we lived in The Valley which was suburban living, and we had children. And when we came here, there were signs up saying they weren’t renting to children, no children allowed.

Karl: Really?

Silver Fox: It was before that law changed. Yes, there was a couple in the Marina that didn’t have children, but they got pregnant, and they owned their unit, and were told they had to get out because they were having a baby. So they went to court and fought the law, and won.  But when we came here, it was very hard to find a place, we had a 15-year-old. So when we moved to The Valley, it was kind of like living in the suburbs where we lived in Chicago, so I was fine with that. I loved living in California, so I couldn’t wait to move into the city.

*Waiter clears dishes*

Waiter: You hardly ate.

Silver Fox: Thank you, nobody’s ever said that to me before. *laugh

So I couldn’t wait to move into town, and I’ve been so happy here. I like this whole thing. We’re staying.

Karl: So where do you see things in the next ten to twenty years?

Silver Fox: In this community?

Karl: Yes.

Silver Fox: I am very concerned about the city allowing all of the construction that is going on.

Karl: It’s constant isn’t it?  There’s in constant construction here.

Silver Fox: You know the city gets money for that. And I’m concerned about that because living here has gotten more difficult because of the traffic and the parking, and I only see it getting worse.

Karl: Yeah, I don’t know how you fix that.

Silver Fox: Well, you stop doing it. Stop, take a good look, and think about how uncomfortable it is. You don’t think that most of those people who work at City Hall live here? Most of them don’t live here. The City Council obviously has to live here, but I wonder where they think we’re going with this when you can barely get down the street. Everybody’s using side streets. I’m not happy about what I see coming in the next ten years.

*pause*

But I may not be driving ten years from now.

Mike
7″ wide x 5″ high
Hand-cut vellum
_____________________________

Karl: Today is the ninth of September, 2010. I’m here at Asakuma Rice with?

Mike: Mike.

Karl: What’s your occupation?

Mike: I’m a video game designer.

Karl: Current relationship status?

Mike: Married… Currently expecting.

Karl: Nice, congratulations. How far along is she?

Mike: *thinks* Nine or ten weeks, I think. Something like that.

Karl: When’s her birthday? And when’s your anniversary?

Mike: Her birthday?

Karl: *laughs* I’m just kidding.

Mike: The 25th of June… Asshole.

Karl: Impressive. I always have to look at my wedding band… at my cheat sheet.

Mike: *laughs*

Karl: Paint a little picture of yourself for me, what you do in your free time, what are your hobbies, what do you like to do outside of work?

Mike: I play video games a lot, ’cause I dig ‘em, and also for research. I go out dancing and stuff with my friends, go out to parties and clubs. I’m not too into the Hollywood “Glam-scene” but we get out to some underground parties with artists and stuff like that. We hang with a pretty cool artist community that I dig, and get lots of inspiration from.

Karl: Are you a hipster, a punk? How would you classify yourself?

Mike: Kind of a hipster I guess, a little bit, because I do attempt to be cool. *laughs* But maybe without overdoing it. I guess I’m a casual hipster. *laughs*

Karl: Part-time?

Mike: Yes, part-time.

Karl: And then part-time corporate sheep?

Mike: Yeah, I work a 9-to-5′er so… Well, or 9-to-9′er… Fucking games.

Karl: What brought you here?

Mike: I moved here with my wife, who wasn’t my wife at the time. She moved down here to work with her sister. We were dating and it was going great, and I always wanted to get into video-games, and I wasn’t going to do that in Eugene, so uh… She was movin’ to LA and I said, “Hell yeah, I’m coming with you, and I’ll try to get into games, and you can work with your sister, and we’ll… still date. *laughs*

Karl: So what were you doing when you came here? You weren’t yet in the video-game industry.

Mike: I was a web designer at that time, and I had contract work at this place, so I came to LA with about 3 or 4 months of contract work. So during that time I started to learn one of the game-making tools, it’s called Radiant. So I started to learn that, and then eventually I got a job as a tester, and then gradually kinda worked my way into the industry that way. Since I knew Radiant, I went to work for a company that I knew was using Radiant, and I just asked for all their junk work that they didn’t want to do. So I was basically their junior design bitch.

Karl: Well, it worked, I guess.

Mike: Yep. Foot in the door anyways.

Karl: What type of places do you go on a typical Saturday?

Mike: There’s a couple places around town that throw parties, one of them is called “Area 33” right now, its down in Culver City, sort of a cool, studio art space.

Karl: This is evening or day?

Mike: Evening. The party starts at about 10 or 11 or whatever and then goes ’till 6 a.m. *sips beer* And I don’t know, there’s a couple other events that people throw around town, semi-monthly, or every other month or so.

Karl: And you sleep during the day?

Mike: *laughs* Basically. It depends how late we go out.

Karl: I’m jealous.

Mike: Well… That’s all ending. *laughs* So you have nothing to be jealous of.

Karl: Yeah. You better go out a lot!

*pause*

How long have you lived here?

Mike: Since September 11th, actually, 2001. We got to California on September 11th, spent the night in Stockton and got to LA on the 12th.

Karl: Can you describe some of the changes you’ve seen over the time that you’ve been here, if any?

Mike: Hollywood’s gotten nicer. They’ve continued to improve that, and kind of de-slum it. The city’s getting built up, you know.

Karl: Well, let’s go through where you’ve lived over the last ten years.

Mike: I started on 3rd and Sweetzer. It’s kind of between West Hollywood and Beverly Hills, tucked in there over by the Beverly Center.  Lived there for a few years and then moved over to Citrus Ave. over by Olympic. That was really residential, there was nothing to walk to… Well, we could walk to Rosco’s.  We were there for maybe another two years. And then moved down to Long Beach for a year. That was because I got a job down in Newport Beach. But my wife still had to work up in Hollywood, so Long Beach kind of put us in the middle. And that place sucked. Long Beach was full of families, and people were just focused kind of inward, instead of the massive creative upwelling in Hollywood. Everybody in Hollywood is trying to do something cool, or trying to be somebody, or really trying to do something. And I definitely noticed that when I went to Long Beach, people did not have that attitude. And I really missed it. I was like, “Holy crap, everyone here is just sort of sitting in their own job and doing whatever they’re doing.”

Karl: Complacent?

Mike: Yeah, way more complacent. Up here, everyone’s like, trying… trying to do something.

Karl: Everybody’s a slasher, right? Actor slash model, game-designer slash entrepreneur.

Mike: Totally… *sips beer* So after Long Beach we moved back here, over in the Cahuenga Pass area over by the Hollywood Bowl, off of Barham.

Karl: What changes have you seen in all these places that you’ve lived? Have you seen anything different since back then?

Mike: Well, we have changed, so the places that we go hang out at have changed. I don’t know, I couldn’t really compare the Saddle Ranch crowd to what it used to be. But when we got here, I was going to the Hollywood clubs, the Sunset Strip, Barfly… You know…

Karl: Which now sucks by the way.

Mike: Does it?

Karl: All those places up there. Well the city has a whole Sunset Strip Beautification effort going on.

Mike: Oh really?

Karl: Yeah, it’s gone downhill.

Mike: Yeah, but even then, it will still be… I mean, I’ve just kind of moved on from the whole, “I want to go somewhere fancy.” I’m just kinda getting tired of that. Honestly, I go to places now to see my friends. Not really to go be seen, but more just, “Oh… We got a bunch of friends going to that party, let’s go to that party.” So I don’t know, we go to like, improv nights where our friends are performing, or DJ nights when one of our friends is DJ’ing. Stuff like that. Way more small, almost local feeling parties and events. I almost never go to something fancy, where there will be a line, or anything like that.

Karl: I hate that.

Mike: It’s so not worth it anymore.

Karl: You’ve been talking about all your friends, what sort of people do you hang out with now? You mentioned artists earlier?

Mike: A lot of performance artists. My wife’s a performance artist, so we’ve met a lot through her. *thinks* Yeah, I’ve never really created a ton of good friends from work. I’ve always kind of kept them at a distance a little bit. There’s some people that I get along with, will go watch football with or whatever, but broadly I would say mainly the performance art community around LA – fire dancers and… other dancers.

Karl: That’s a fun crowd… an attractive crowd.

Mike: Yeah. They’re awesome ’cause all parties have like tons of entertainment because everybody’s just acting out and being cooky. But there are times where you’re just like, “Okay, you guys, like fucking shut up, I have something to say for a few minutes.” But, ’cause you know, they’re all actors and performers, they totally want the spotlight. And then when you get a lot of ‘em together, they compete with each other for the spot light, which leaves a non-actor a little bit like, “Um… Okay.”

Karl: In the corner.

Mike: Yeah, like, “Listen up!”

Karl: How do you feel about the changes that you’ve gone through then?

Mike: I feel great, honestly. When I first got to LA, I was really worried about what it would be like. I had only seen the glitz and the glamour sheen on LA. Since we got here and have scratched beneath that surface, we’ve found very real, grounded people, doin’ their thing here in LA. Oh, another thing that has changed is my mindset as far as business opportunities and entrepreneurialism. When I first got here, this city was so big and overwhelming, I was just like, “Holy crap, can I even live here?” And then I found my niche, and got a good job and started making some money and stuff, and I felt like, “Sweet, here I am, I’m arriving in LA, I live here, this is my town now.” Now… I’ve almost like dug down even deeper, I’m starting to see that there’s a ton of opportunity here. I mean, I used to think that there’s a ton of opportunity to go get hired, and “do” whatever you want to go do, but now I’m starting to see that there’s more opportunity to go make what you want to do, like go make a company, go get funding from people because there’s so much money in this town. You have the opportunity to think way bigger than you’ve ever thought before, and go create more than you’ve ever thought before. I’m starting to train my mind to think bigger than I ever thought I could before.

Karl: Yeah, well you meet so many people who have done it, that it makes it feel completely attainable.

Mike: Yep. Like, in Eugene, I didn’t know a single person with a million dollar house. But here, some of our friends have two million dollar houses, and they made all their money themselves just by creating a project, and then getting funding, and having a successful business. And that kind of thing just makes you think, “Holy cow, they did it! I can go do that!” So now I start to think almost beyond my station, whereas before I was like, “Oh, I’m middle class, that’s about all I’ll get.” So, I don’t know… I’ve started to kind of change my mind a little… Or at least expand it.

Karl: So LA has been a good thing?

Mike: *sips beer* Mmm hmm, big time.

Karl: I do too. It took awhile for that to come around, but I do.

Mike: We’re you still tied to New York?

Karl: Yeah, I was just bitter about this city in general. I didn’t like having to drive and… You know, I think people, especially from the East coast, come here with this very defensive attitude, like wanting to defend the East coast, and be like, “LA sucks ’cause of blah blah blah,” and “It’s not as good as blah blah blah.” But like, once you kind of chill out and realize all the things you just described… And then you take into account the weather too… It’ s a really great city. I mean there’s certainly plenty to bitch about, but…

Mike: Well, you just kind of learn to blow it off. All the glitzy, glamour, hollywood self-important, self-centered bitches on their cell phones in their SUVs and stuff, I just blow ‘em off now. I’m just like, “Wow, you can yap at me, you can give me the finger, you mean nothing to me. Run along little blonde.” *laughs* “You waif!”

Karl: I like to think of that element as the clothing of LA, in the same respect that all these women are wearing the sequence gowns and everything. They’re always going to be here, those people are always going to be in this city, they may change all the time, but… Once you dig beneath the clothes, you get to the real people here. Although, most of them are just as bad in a lot of respects.

Mike: Definitely.

Karl: Have the businesses changed much?

Mike: Well, Melrose… I don’t know if this is my perception of it or not, but I used to think Melrose was like, way cooler than I think it is now. *laughs* I don’t know if the boutique shops have left or what.

Karl: Are you referring to all the Euro-trash down there by Fairfax High?

Mike: Yeah! It seems like stuff just used to be way cooler. I don’t know if it’s because I just got to LA, and was just like, eyes open, like, “Oh my God, there’s way more fashion here than… in Oregon!” Yeah but, I don’t know, it seems like Melrose is just jumpin’ the shark or something.

Karl: Yeah, or you’ve just outgrown it, it passé now.

Mike: That may be it. But the Hollywood area is getting better and better. I notice more buildings going up, more buildings being refurbished, new bars opening that aren’t like, trashy places.

Karl: Describe the general attitude of the community here.

Mike: *thinks* I would say either do something cool, or go home. People like to feed on each other. Not in a parasitic way, but more like, they like to build on each other I guess – inspire each other. A lot of people here are doing cool, crazy shit.

*pause*

Maybe I can sum it up with a story… A friend of mine, let’s call him, “Rick,” is this kick ass performance artist. He is one of the funniest, most charismatic people I have ever met. He is not afraid to be a performer, he’ll do comedy dance, like improve, if you’re just like, “Yo, Rick, two-step!” He’ll do like fifteen two-steps, he’s just amazing. He’s gonna be famous, I guarantee he’s gonna be famous one of these days. I didn’t know that much about him… *sips beer* Other than just seeing him at parties and stuff, so I was like, “Rick, what do you do for a living to pay the rent and stuff?” And he got kinda sad, and was kinda like, “Oh, you know, I’m like a handyman kinda guy, I do some construction stuff, or whatever.” And this other friend of ours, Loraine, was like, “Fuck you, Rick, shut up! You are not a fucking handyman! You are a performer! Don’t define yourself as a handyman, define yourself as a performer!” So I would say that people here have their two personalities – the one thing that pays the rent while they’re working on who they really want to be. One of my first philosophies about LA was that in LA, you are the lie that you tell people. So if you go rent a Ferrari and meet some people for a business meeting, to that person, you totally are the guy with the Ferrari who already can afford whatever business. And LA seems very much that kind of a town where you can kind of fake it ’till you make it a little bit… Or a lot. And there’s a lot of freedom in that. There’s also almost a little bit of a lie in that, but it’s almost a lie that you have to tell yourself. You have to believe in yourself that you can be something that you’re not yet. I feel like there’s a lot of that in this town. And again, maybe its because we live in the Hollywood area where a lot of people are just really attempting to make something of themselves, or make something cool that’s never been seen before.

Karl: If I may offer a counter to that?

Mike: Sure.

Karl: The host of “Martini Shot” on NPR, I don’t know if you ever listen to him, Rob Long?

Mike: Uh huh.

Karl: Awhile back, he did a segment that touched on how this makes everyone feel like a failure in LA. There are therapists who treat the mega-big movie stars and producers… People who have made it – like hit film, hit film, hit film *taps fingers* and they still tell their therapists, “Everybody’s gonna find me out, I’m a total hack, I’m a joke, and everybody’s gonna know it.”

Mike: *laughs*

Karl: Like, let’s take your friend Rick for example… He’s not famous, but maybe he’s been on TV, maybe he’s had a couple of appearances in some films, maybe he’s done some successful stand up routines at the clubs around here, and he’s maintaining a successful handyman business. So by anywhere else’s standards, that’s pretty impressive. People outside of here might say, “Man, Rick went to LA, he landed all these shows, he’s in movies, and manages to hold down a full time job!” But to Rick, he’s like, “Man, I’m not shit! Who am I kidding? I’m not a freaking’ performer, I’m a handyman!” That goes through all our heads here. “Who am I kidding? I’m a total hack!”

Mike: I constantly vacillate between self-confidence in myself, and just being like, “Dude, I totally suck.”

Karl: We all do. That’s what this whole show was about, we all do that here.

Mike: I guess not everyone measures their success in the same way. Like right now, I’m considering quitting my job and either starting something totally brand new, or going to work for a smaller company that’s not going to make as successful a game as the game that I’m working on now. But right now I’m just hot on making something that I’m proud of, instead of making something that sells and becomes a success by other people’s measure.

Karl: Right, well, using you to continuing my point… In your head you’re still striving to achieve these things and these goals whereas other people might look at you and say, “Man, this guy’s made it! He moved to LA, he landed a corporate gig, he’s makin’ some good dough…” *pause* It’s all perception though I guess.

Mike: It’s an interesting take on it.

Karl: It’s ambition. But yes, we do all feed off each other in whatever way it is.

Mike: Thinking about that makes you want to just… be thankful, and take some time to count your successes, and appreciate what you have accomplished.

Karl: Has the place grown for the better or for the worse since you’ve been here?

Mike: I guess I think for the better. I don’t know why I think that, other than my standard optimism. *laughs* My wife’s business has grown. The city seems to be doing okay although I continue to hear about how broke we are. You know, I have noticed that the roads are getting worse. They totally suck right now. Makes me want to go get an SUV so I can freakin’ drive around on these crappy roads. They’re changing little shit too. I just read about how they’re changing all the parking meters with digital readers that let you pay with coins or a credit card. But also there’s a new rule that if the meter is “failed,” you can’t park there.

Karl: *with passion* I hate that!

Mike: *sigh* Yeah. I hate that too.

Karl: (To city) You fix it! It’s your problem, you’re losing money, fix the meter! I’m parking here.

Mike: Exactly.

Karl: But they get more money ticketing me… so… *grumbles* Hate it!

Mike: They’re farming us for revenue.

Karl: Right, like if that’s the problem, just make them all fail. I’d be less pissed knowing I had to pay that up front then walking up to $60 ticket. Or just make them all $60 meters. *laughs*

*pause*

What sorts of things would you like to see more of?

Mike: *thinks* Hmm… More park space. We need some more green space. And, God, more public transportation or something ’cause traffic is ridiculous. You know, nobody likes to ride the fucking bus. If we had a rail system…

Karl: I know.

Mike: That would help a lot! And then work to create a culture that uses it.

Karl: Well, I think people would, but we’re not going to see a change like that for at least another decade. The desire is here, people want to ride the train. Everybody I talk to says that. But I’m sort of a pathetic example of what may be the case. My company has a train stop, so I could get on at Hollywood and Highland and go, but it’s twice as long a commute. It’s two transfers, it’s a pain in the ass. And I love the train.

Mike: I heard they’re running one down Wilshire? But couldn’t because of the tar pits or something. I think they figured out a way around that though.

Karl: How about less of?

Mike: Less bums. *laughs* I don’t know. You know, LA has this fucking velvet-rope problem. I don’t know if they could get rid of it or not, but it just makes going places so annoying sometimes. Going to a place where there’s always going to be a line, and then you get in and it’s empty! We just had this experience actually at the W Hotel.  The W just moved into town, they just completed their new hotel in Hollywood, and one of our friends, Alecia, it was her birthday coming up. Alecia is the type of girl who likes the Hollywood scene, she’s a model, she’s *with enthusiasm* gorgeous! So she wanted to go to the W and get a cabana for her birthday. This is like, expensive. Way beyond what I would normally spend. But… we figured if we get a bunch of friends, it won’t be so bad, it’s cool. So Alecia and her husband get a room at the W. So we got the cabana and bottle service, so score, we’re going to this cool pool party there and stuff. We get there to meet Alecia and her husband for brunch, they have a room, and we get all this shit from people about getting in to meet them for brunch… Because it’s hotel guests only. So I said, “Our friends are guests, we’re here to meet them, can’t we go meet them for brunch?” And they’re like, “Well… *long pause* I guess so.” “Well, what do you mean, “You guess so?” Isn’t that the way it works?” And they’re like, “Well, yes, that’s the way it works.” So they let us up. So we go up and we meet them for brunch. They get us the bottle service, they get us the cabana and all that stuff… And then we hear that we’re kicked out. They’re like, “Sorry, one of the guys who says he’s in your party had a hard time with the bouncer at the door, so we’re kicking everyone out.” I said, “I don’t even know who that was, and you’re kicking all of us out? I’m not paying for the cabana, or the bottles, because we expected to be here all day.” And they’re like, “Yes you are!” And I’m like, “No… I’m not.” *sips beer* So they finally realized, and were just like, “Okay, you gotta leave.” So they kicked us out! But the whole experience was terrible! So we went to one of the nicest places in LA, and had a terrible experience because of this push-pull of trying to be exclusive, but still trying to have some sort of customer service.

Karl: What did he do to the bouncer?

Mike: I don’t know, it was Alecia’s brother. The story goes that the altercation resulted in some sort of spitting incident. I don’t know what was going on. Obviously, that’s inappropriate but… I mean, a bouncer… he’s not like a welcoming person.

Karl: *laughs* No.

Mike: *laughs* I mean he wasn’t like, “Oh, your sister bought a cabana, welcome in!” It obviously wasn’t that sort of interaction so… Less of that! Less of that kind of bull shit.

Karl: Are you happy here, has the area been good to you?

Mike: Yep.

Karl: Sounds like it has.

Mike: Yeah, I love it here. I don’t really want to raise kids here, so by the time our kids are ready to go to school, I think we’ll leave. But I love it.

Karl: Where do you see things ten to twenty years from now? Not you, but the city?

Mike: Man, they’re gonna have some issues I think. Traffic is gonna get worse and worse and worse. They’re gonna have to solve that. The film industry is gonna change here because Bollywood is crankin’ out films like crazy. And the town is just getting so expensive that the people that build the movies… All the grips and the crew and stuff that don’t make a lot of money… They can barely afford to live in the town that they work. So anytime anything like that gets off-balance, then the industry breaks a bit. So I think the whole Hollywood, and people creating movies in LA thing… It’ll still happen, but I mean in twenty years? I don’t think it’s going to be as big here as it used to be.

Karl: Well, you know… Not that you can compare the two because they’re so different, but nobody can really afford to live in Manhattan but people do, and people still strive for it, or to get as close as they can to it. I don’t know, hopefully LA will always have that similar draw to it that makes people want to live here.

Mike: You know, there’s a big Hispanic population in LA, and they fit into the majority of blue-collar work it seems. At least in my experience of what I’ve seen of this city. It seems like 90% of the blue-collar jobs are held by Latinos. I think that will change in the next twenty years. I think it will roll over and their kids’ generation will get into white-collar here. So I think that will change from Latinos owning the blue-collar industries… I can see them still doing well in the blue-collar industry and stuff, but I definitely think they’ll leverage themselves up over a twenty year generation. So that’s cool, at least for all the people who aren’t afraid of brown people. *laughs*

Karl: I can’t imagine there are many here.

Mike: You know that’s one of my favorite things about LA, is how diverse it is. You know, we have Germans, Russians, Armenians, Japanese, Chinese, Blacks and Whites and Latinos and stuff… LA is a huge melting pot. That’s one thing I love, super-diverse cultures, super-diverse foods. It totally doesn’t bother me to hear different languages in our city, I like that. It’s weird to hear people complain, *cranky female voice* “Speak English!” I fucking love that we have all kinds of different cultures but that we all kind of center around the ideal of personal liberty. And that ideal, through all cultures, we can all hold on to that and then get along through that ideal, even when we have cultural differences.

Karl: Yeah. What sort of reaction do you get from your Oregon friends who come here? Specifically gay town where it’s like, right in your face and as alien to them as possible.

Mike: You know, I have not had too many friends come to town, and shown them that side of things. Most of my friends are pretty liberal anyways. The biggest weirdness that my friends have felt when they come here is insecurity about their incomes.

Karl: The prices are overwhelming?

Mike: And people in LA show off their wealth a lot. So my friends from Eugene, who don’t earn much, come to LA and they have their nice jeans that they’ve had for two years already, and a nice shirt that they’ve had for a year, but if you look closely it’s not crisp anymore. Whereas here in LA, people are pimpin’…

Karl: I wear Target.

Mike: *laughs* People are just very visible with their wealth. They wear it on their sleeve in this town. People are as wealthy in other towns, but they don’t show it off. They drive a Honda, maybe with leather, but still a Honda and not a Bentley. I mean, Beamers are like Civics in this town.

Karl: Well, that’s true, the whole car thing here. But I kind of classify that with the whole “clothing of LA” thing we talked about earlier.

Mike: Yeah. Well, that’s just an insecurity my friends feel when they get here. They’re like, “Oh shit, I don’t measure up.”

Karl: Right. Because they don’t get that that’s all sort of the big lie of LA. It’s our thing, to make everyone feel insecure. *laughs* It’s all a big show that people put on here.

Mike: It’s a weird thing because it is important in this town. It is a big show, and people could have an uber-fancy Bentley, and then not own their own home, or something. But it is something that actually does carry weight, it’s weird. I mean, it depends on who you’re meeting and who your friends are, but it can actually have an impact on your career, how you present yourself, and how wealthy you appear. If you’re trying to ask people for money, you need to look like you don’t need it.

Karl: I don’t know, man. When I see those cars, a lot of times I assume they’re the people you’re describing, that it’s a lease. But… I’m still not driving one so… *shrugs and sips beer* Any crazy story about the area you want to share?

Mike: Oh fuck, I don’t know, all kinds of crazy shit… Driving by and seeing some bum taking a shit on the side of the street.

Karl: I love that! *laughs* That’s no big deal.

Mike: *laughs* ‘Cause that’s just a city story! That’s just something weird that stands out in my head ’cause I’m a country boy.

Karl: *laughing hysterically* I’ve even stepped in it!

Chris
10″ wide x 8″ high
Hand-cut vellum

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Karl: *places iPhone on table in front of Chris*

Chris: I love that you’re so low-tech.

Karl: Yeah, they make it so easy now.

Chris: So awesome.

Karl: It’s August 30th, I’m here with “Chris J.” at Tender Greens on Santa Monica Blvd. We can call you something else if you want.

Chris: Yeah, I want to know why you changed your name too.

Karl: I changed my name because I have a prior career, and I don’t want this to be related to that work at all. I’ve started this whole new thing and I really don’t want it to have anything to do with the other work I’m doing, or have done before. So I use my porn star name, which, you know, is your middle name, and then a street that you’ve lived on.

Chris: Oh, okay. So it’s Karl Clay?

Karl: Clay Road is actually in Rochester.

Chris: Really?

Karl: So… Anyway…. Chris, what’s your name?

Chris: My name is Chris J.

Karl: Occupation?

Chris: I sell motion picture film. *laughs* Officially, I’m an account manager for independent features, for Eastman Kodak Company.

Karl: Current relationship status?

Chris: *pause* In a relationship. *laughs*

Karl: Alright Chris, J., tell me a little about yourself, what your hobbies are, what you do outside of work?

Chris: A friend of mine used to kid around and say that I live the lives of three people, because I’m always pretty busy. My free time and my professional time sort of blend together. In my free time I’m an athlete, and I’m also am artist slash filmmaker. So I’m always working on my film projects, whether it’s writing, or directing, or developing stories and pushing them forward. And as an athlete I’m always training for some event, whether it’s a century bike ride or the AIDS/Lifecycle seven day ride or other charity rides. I’m also training to climb another fourteener… And I mountain bike. *laughs*

Karl: Yeah, that’s like four people, I think… Maybe five.

Chris: So I’m really tired. Oh, and the relationship keeps me busy too. But I’m trying to stay focused on all of it.

Karl: How do you find the time? When DO you do the training?

Chris: Well, in the past I’ve worked out in the morning, before work, and then on the weekends. I’ve had a schedule where I’ve worked out five days a week, when I’m in hard-core training. I mean, for the AIDS ride, I’m cycling a couple-hundred miles a week to build up my endurance.

Karl: Is that like a 5:00 a.m. wake up or something?

Chris: Yeah, and I cycle with a group on the West Side… So, living in West Hollywood, it’s all about me putting the bike in the car, driving to the West Side, and then cycling from there. I have done rides from the house, but… I prefer to be in less traffic, less urban cycling areas. So… Yeah… I don’t know, before the relationship, I was working out a lot more. *laughs*

Karl: Yeah, sure. It gets the best of us.

Chris: It’s actually quite nice to sleep in with my girlfriend once in awhile, and forego the crazy fitness events I do on the weekends. In the past I’ve also carved out time, everyday, to work on my projects. You know, I’d go to a coffee shop and spend a couple hours just writing at the end of the day. I’ve got to get a little bit more discipline on that. ‘Cause you have to always kind of be working on it, for it to move forward.

Karl: There’s always something that suffers, right? You have to sacrifice the fitness in order to get the writing done, or vice versa. How old are you?

Chris: Is that important?

Karl: Over thirty? Although you don’t look it.

Chris: You’re kind. It’s all the organic food I eat.

Karl: And the biking. *wink* So what brought you here?

Chris: The film business; I’m trying to make my dreams come true as a film-maker. I started in Rochester with Kodak, I had just graduated from the Visual Studies Workshop where I got an MFA in Visual Studies. My focus was going to be in Photography, but I started making short films, and I had discovered that that medium can reach a lot more people in a theater than making art photography in white-walled galleries. I mean, I would’ve loved to had been an art star, but I just felt that telling my stories through the medium of film, where image and sound, as a photographer, can come together was what I wanted to focus on. So after four years of being a graphic designer and an art director at Kodak, in Rochester, after graduate school, it was time to step it up and give my writing, directing, film-making career a shot. So I applied for three different positions at Kodak. One was in New York, one was in San Francisco, one was in LA, and like, on the third round they offered me the job. They were like, “So where do you want to live, New York or LA?” Since I grew up in New York, I wanted to get as far away as possible, and I thought I’d learn a lot more being in the heart of the entertainment industry. So I chose Hollywood. I grew up in New York, I wanted to get as far away as possible.

Karl: Had you been here before?

Chris: I had been here on business trips, and LA was never on my radar of places I ever wanted to live. It was always San Francisco, the “queer mecca,” the most beautiful city, most intelligent, highly-educated, urban, progressive… city. I also liked Colorado, randomly. I’m a big fan of Boulder, CO. I used to live in the mountains there. I always thought I would, maybe have that kind of life, but I didn’t know how my filmmaking would fit there. So… LA is where I am right now.

Karl: Do you see that in your future? Colorado?

Chris: Yeah. I’ve been trying to make it happen, part-time, for a couple years, but I can’t financially make that happen right now… just yet.

Karl: How’s the film market there?

Chris: There’s really not a filmmaking community there. The University of Colorado at Boulder has a film program that’s actually steered toward a lot more experimental film, which is interesting to me, but it’s not like I could go there and probably survive on making my films. There’s a side of me that’s also very interested in recreation and athleticism, and those kinds of industries, so maybe someday I’ll find work in that field and live in Boulder. ‘Cause I could see myself doing that, and having a nice house, and still making my films. Ideally I’d like to live there part-time, and even own a cabin in the mountains. If I could get to Colorado three or four times a year, I’d be happy. Just because, as you know, living in LA is crazy-making.

Karl: I think that’s totally attainable. I could see you there.

Chris: Yeah, I love it. Someday, you’ll come out and see me in Colorado with your kids.

Karl: How ’bout I just send the kids.

Chris: Sure. *laughs*

Karl: How long have you been here?

Chris: Ten years – 2000.

Karl: Try to describe for me how the area has changed over the time that you’ve lived here.

Chris: I used to live in the heart of West Hollywood, on Palm and Sunset, which was a few steps from Book Soup and Tower Records at the time. I loved that location because, coming from Rochester, it really felt urban and exciting; the Sunset Strip, the Viper Room, there was a lot going on. I’d have a glass of wine and go browse the books at Book Soup to get inspired by all the photography books there, ’cause they have the best selection. Or I’d go to Tower Records and listen to music ’cause they had listening stations, and it was awesome. I was really excited, LA was new, and I was enamored by… you know… at that time, the industry. Now I’m like, whatever…

Karl: So over it?

Chris: I’m so over it. I was starting a new career, it was exciting to me, and something in me said, “You’ve got to buy a place. You’ve got to become more financially responsible.” ‘Cause I was paying, at that time, ten years ago, $1300 for a one bedroom. Which, from Rochester, $450 a month! *laughs* I decided to buy a place on the other side of La Cienega… I was so bummed to lose my 3-1-0! I was so upset about that.

Karl: I don’t get that, I don’t see what’s so bad about the 3-2-3. I kind of like it. It has some personality to it. We’ve got character.

Chris: It’s a little more gritty.

Karl: Yeah, exactly! It’s got some heart to it.

Chris: So, I had to go through these growing pains of buying a condo, and the financial aches of dealing with all that. I moved into a new round of maturity doing that. I totally wanted to buy a place on Palm, but I went from being in the thick of the craziness to a little bit more quiet/residential on Kings Road. For me, what’s changed? It went from being, like totally gay male, on Palm, to a bit more mixed on Kings, which is nice. Unfortunately, there still, to me, is nowhere near the amount of women, or lesbians, I would like to be living amongst. I just don’t think that West Hollywood really attracts lesbians. Or they just can’t afford living in this area. Um, what else has changed? Honestly, only recently, I’ve noticed that every Monday, coming out of the garage, there is a person in every single dumpster on Kings Road. And these are not homeless people, these are young women that clearly have families and kids to feed, and so it kind of freaks me out. Times are really bad right now. I haven’t seen crime go up, because there was actually a lot of crime in my last neighborhood, but I’ve never seen dumpster diving like I have recently. It’s crazy. And again, these are young women, Latina women, just digging around for bottles for the refunds. These aren’t crack addicts, just people trying to survive. What else has changed? I don’t know… It’s all very glitzy and superficial where we live. That seems to be a constant. *pause* There are more cupcake stores.

Karl: And who’s going to complain about that? Sweet Lady Jane…

Chris: Do you eat there? Do you like it?

Karl: I take my daughter.

Chris: I should go there more often.

Karl: You don’t want to go often. It’s like… You know, we’ll end up butterballs, but…

Chris: Yeah… I never remember that it’s so close.

Karl: So why is this place not attracting women? What places ARE attracting women?

Chris: They’re all on the East Side, where the rents are cheaper, Echo Park, Mt. Washington. Honestly, they’re all over, they’re just not concentrated in one community here like the gay men are. I mean, we don’t have lesbian bars anymore, you know, except The Palms.  It’s just spread out. I mean, that’s true in every city, it’s not just true to LA. In San Francisco they’re mostly in the Mission, whereas the gay men are mostly in the Castro.

Karl: The Normandie Room is now Gym.

Chris: Yeah, that closed down. That was a sad day when it closed; it was kind of an institution.

Karl: A lot of memories there I bet.

Chris: Or lack of memories.

Karl: On that note, how about the social scene? Did you go out a lot more?

Chris: Yeah, it was my first time living in a big city. Even though I grew up in New York, it was a suburb of New York. This was the first time I’d lived in an urban environment, so I went out a lot more. Back then it was the Normandie Room, Girl Bar, they had certain nights, they had girl parties. I think that’s just a phase you go through… One would hope.

Karl: Yeah, you out grow it, you get too many responsibilities. You used to drop $200 on drinks alone… You can’t really do that anymore.

Chris: Yeah. And meeting people in a bar… They’re generally not the kinda people I want to meet. Its more exciting being with my cycling friends, being outside, meeting people.

Karl: Well, that’s probably better anyway, because then your commonality is cycling… And not going out to bars cruising . *laughs*

*waiter refills waters*

Karl: You mentioned The Palms, is that place any good? Do you like that place?

Chris: The Palms is like, still stuck in an era of yesteryear. I’m glad it exists, but… It’s kind of a dive.

Karl: I haven’t been in there in… a long time.

Chris: Why are you going to lesbian bars?

Karl: Well, it’s in the neighborhood, you gotta go in there and check it out, see what it’s about.

Chris: You knew you were moving to a gay area, right? So like, what drew you to this area?

Karl: Well, she got the job, and moved out here, and her gay boss was like, “You gotta live in West Hollywood, it’s close, it’s safe.” So I stayed back in New York for 6-months, to make sure she liked it here, but eventually I came, and I think that’s kind of the whole point of Access Mundane. I’m a very unlikely character to settle in here and really grow to love it so much. I really do, I think it’s a fantastic city.

Chris: Coming from New York City? From Manhattan?

Karl: Yeah, the Upper East Side… Very young… Trendy… You know. I worked in Chelsea, so this scene wasn’t alien to me. But here I’ve grown into this conservative, aerospace, geek, raising two kids… in Weho! It’s not what you would expect.

Chris: Totally not what I would expect. And I’ll be surprised if you guys stay.

Karl: Well, the only thing that would…

Chris: Schools.

Karl: Well, you can get around that. But the only thing would probably force us to leave would be, because we need a bigger space. I don’t know what we’re going to do with that condo when the kids get bigger. We both love it here, but I don’t know if we can afford a house in Weho. But… Anyway, this is about you.

Chris: That’s fascinating. I’ve wanted to have kids, but I don’t think I’m going to at this point. Financially, I just like being free, and making my art, you know? I can spend a few thousand dollars on a movie that I want to make. I always thought that I’d want to have a family, and I feel like that’s really important, but my cycling community to me has become my family, and my friends, and LA… They’re such strong bonds. Honestly, if you meet anybody from Shifting Gears, which is the group I ride with, they’re like my brothers and sisters. It’s like a HUGE family. So… I don’t think kids are gonna happen. *long pause* It’s okay. *swallows bite* Mmm, so good!

Karl: Yeah, that WAS good. Thanks for the introduction to this place.

Chris: It’s phenomenal.

Karl: Tell me a little about the attitude of West Hollywood itself, and how that’s changed… If it’s changed.

Chris: Well, in general, I’d say there’s definitely a very superficial, elitist, entitlement sort of attitude going on in West Hollywood. Those might not be the people that live here though. Now being a homeowner, it’s different. I have a different relationship with my community than I did as a renter. West Hollywood is interesting, as a resident, because I feel like there is a mixture of people that come together that are the wannabes, and the people that actually pay the taxes here. And frankly, I cannot stand some of the wannabes, and people that come through here, with their showiness, and their attitude, with their big fucking cars. I honestly have had trouble finding community for me in West Hollywood. Coming from Rochester, or a student neighborhood in Buffalo, I honestly really haven’t felt like I fit in. I don’t know where I fit in this city. I honestly feel like I might fit in the best in Santa Monica because I’m an outdoors person, and there’s lots of women there, and it’s a mixture of outdoor lovers, and maybe I would identify more with that community, while our community, I would say, is 75% gay male.

Karl: Do you feel that it’s always been that high? Has that increased or decreased over the last decade?

Chris: It’s hard to say… But like, you guys have moved in, and more mixed professionals have moved in as well. I’ve never felt that I fit in with the gay male community. The reason for me buying my place was as an investment, and the proximity to my office. And, as someone who doesn’t have a cushion to fall back on, if I needed to turn it over, I could. I don’t feel like I fit in in Silverlake because I’m not the tattooed, pierced, edgy, scenester kind of person. I don’t feel like I belong further east because I kind of like to gravitate toward the ocean. I don’t feel like a Hollywood person because I’m not enamored by Hollywood. So I struggle to find where I belong in LA. My point is just that it’s been really hard to find a sense of belonging in West Hollywood. Even though West Hollywood is where the gay community is, to me, an out lesbian for many years, it seems like its so high end, and glossy, and male, and I just don’t relate to it at all.

Karl: And you felt this arriving here? You felt this conflict from the beginning?

Chris: I didn’t know any better. I knew I needed to be in West Hollywood because I was gay, and my friends always said, “You need to live in a gay ghetto for part of your life to really understand what it’s like to be a gay person living in an urban center.” So… Okay. But still… It’s overwhelmingly male gay.

Karl: What did it teach you? Having now lived in a gay ghetto?

Chris: To really appreciate living in a mixed neighborhood; I don’t need to live in a gay ghetto. I mean, I identify as a normal fucking person, a person like you, interested in the arts, interested in kids, living in a mixed, diverse community. I don’t need to be with the gays. I have enough gay friends, I don’t need to live side by side. It’s brought me back to… I just want to be in a diverse community of thoughtful, caring people, that care about the neighborhood. It’s nice to have things in common with people, and have the same philosophies, but that’s also a given in California.

Karl: Over the last decade or so, has it grown for the better, or for the worst? *looks under table* Am I kicking you?

Chris: No, you’re good. We’ve seen some ups and down over the last ten years, as property owners. I think it’s going to come back, but with the economy being the way it is, as with everywhere, it has taken a turn for the worst. The state’s almost bankrupt, people are in dumpsters, prices at the supermarkets and gas pumps are insane, it’s not pretty. It’s going to continue to get harder to afford living where we live, with the taxes and the high cost of living, and it’s not just West Hollywood, it’s the state of California. Having said all that, you have to find happiness with your children, or on a hike, or on a bike ride, or making your art. We are lucky to have all we have, and West Hollywood is ultimately a nice place to live. It’s important to recognize and be grateful for that. Life is pretty good. The weather is great. But the air quality’s gotten worse. *laughs* If you are talking about what’s gotten worse… I’m all over the map with this. Personally and truthfully, I’m just not in love with West Hollywood.

Karl: Do you want to talk about that?

Chris: No, I actually don’t, but I just feel like, in a bigger picture, you and I being peers, it’s going to continue to get harder to afford living where we live, with the taxes, and the stuff that’s coming down all the time. And it’s not just West Hollywood, it’s just this state. That’s a loaded question… Is it getting better? Financially? No, it’s not getting better for people that own, and want to spend a long time here. But… Is the community getting better? I don’t know, what does that mean?

Karl: Well… It’s a pretty subjective question… Like asking someone if blue is better than red.

Chris: It’s pretty stable. Thankfully we live in a low crime area. It hasn’t gone up or down. Life is pretty good. The weather is great all the time. We feel okay… The air quality’s gotten worse. *laughs* If that’s what you’re talking about… I’m all over the map with this. I’m just not in love with West Hollywood.

Karl: No, it’s all good. It’s honest.

Chris: I hate to sound like a complainer, because I feel really lucky. I know how lucky I am to have the life I have. But about personal identity, if you’re being specific to this location, I struggle with that.

Karl: Continuing on the city maintaining itself… What would you like to see more of?

Chris: Honestly, I’d like to see more steps toward a better public transportation system. I think that would make this city a lot better, if we would get a subway stop, or elevated trains that would reduce the traffic. Every time you want to leave, you gotta be strategic. “What time of day is it? What’s the traffic like? Can I do this errand tomorrow at 3:30? Do I have to leave my apartment now at 5:00 to travel to the supermarket?” There’s so much forethought that you need to have before you leave, and you just gotta be smart about it, or I’ll be shooting myself in the head. I’ll have panic attacks in the car because I’m sitting in traffic. *laughs*

Karl: On your note earlier that West Hollywood doesn’t attract many lesbians, or enough lesbians… What if it did? Would that change anything?

Chris: Um… No, I think it could. Because I would like to see more businesses being run by women. I’d like to see more community spaces that I feel comfortable going to. The lack of independent coffee shops… I mean, as a writer, and as an artist, I really take pride in putting my money back into independent businesses. I’ll go to an independent coffee shop over a Starbucks, and there’s such a lack of that here. I would love it. There used to be a coffee shop here ten years ago, in the strip mall across the street, that’s now a twelve step store, that used to be a lesbian owned coffee shop that I was in once or twice. And there’s been nothing like that ever since. I know there might be some places like that on the East Side, but there’s nothing around here that’s like that. And I know coffee shops are hard businesses to make successful, but with the closing of the Normandie Room… I wish, like in Seattle, or Portland, where there’s this mixture of spaces, I wish we had that amongst the gay neighborhoods. I really wish we had that. Seattle is a great example. There’s so many wonderful coffee shop hang out places in Seattle, and a lot of them are run by women. And we have nothing like that here.

Karl: And less of?

Chris: Um… *thinks* See less of? The canvassers in front of the fucking supermarkets.

Karl: *erupts into hysterics* No shit! *laughs*

Chris: *laughs* I’m filled with dread every time I exit Whole Foods or Gelsons.

Karl: It’s like Vegas, when everyone’s handing you the cards with the naked women on them, sometimes you have to like… *makes thrashing football sprint gesture* fight them off. *laughs* I think they’re working towards that. They’re getting a lot hotter, have you noticed that? It’s like, they weren’t getting enough signatures before…

Chris: You mean cuter?

Karl: Yeah… It’s like they all became more attractive all of a sudden to try and lure more people in, I think they started hiring models.

Chris: Whatever you say.

Karl: Has the area been good to you?

Chris: *hysterical laughter… then sudden serious expression* Yes. Yes it has. *more laughter* It’s served it purpose. I cannot tell you how wonderful it is, that it takes me seven minutes to drive to my office. Seven minutes door to door, on a good morning. At the most ten.

Karl: Yeah, if you hit the light, right? Is that in a car or on a bike?

Chris: That’s in a car. Probably fifteen minutes on a bike. It’s really served it’s purpose in that it’s allowed me to have a work/life balance, because I’m so close to my job… If the plumber’s coming, I can jet home in ten minutes. It’s just so nice to live so close to where you work. I don’t know how people live in Woodland Hills, West Hills… I really don’t know.

Karl: Well, you’re talking to a guy who drives about forty minutes.

Chris: Yeah. You could’ve been a South Bay family.

Karl: So dull, Chris.

Chris: Yeah but… Do you guys even do nightlife stuff? I mean you say it’s dull, but you guys have a family… I mean, maybe you walk to Gelsons, or go have a drink somewhere but…

Karl: I know… marry straight, have kids… life ends. No it’s true… What am I complaining about?

Chris: I know you come from that kind of culture and you like to go out… I guess you still like to be around it.

Karl: I guess I just like to have it available. Like, I have a habit of leaving the house at 3 a.m. and walking around the city at odd hours of the night. I just need to leave the house sometimes.

Chris: That happens?

Karl: I do it all the time.

Chris: Where do you go? You don’t feel nervous?

Karl: I just walk, look at the car accidents, follow sirens, remind myself that I live in a vibrant city, No, I’m not nervous. It feels pretty safe.

Chris: Well, you’re a man. I would. Where do you walk?

Karl: Sometimes toward La Brea, toward the “bad” *holds fingers up in air like quotes* side of town, or walk Santa Monica Blvd, or Melrose, look for car accidents, sirens and things… Any sort of action of activity.

Chris: Ever go up to Sunset?

Karl: You know, I don’t really like it up there.

Chris: Climbing a hill. *shakes head*

Karl: That damn Sweetzer hill is exhausting! But you know, there’s a lot of activity going on at that hour. Around 2:30, there’s usually lots of mobs outside of the bars. Like the other night I was walking outside of Fubar, and there’s all these drag queens out there with all these people crowded around taking pictures, and there was a bad car accident on Santa Monica Blvd., and cops everywhere, and it just makes you feel like you live in an interesting place.

Chris: Yeah. I get it.

Karl: Right… Now… I’d be a freak if I walked out of the house at that hour in the South Bay and I was wandering around the neighborhood.

Chris: Yeah, you’d be arrested.

Karl: Right. And West Hollywood offers you that. If you walk out in the middle of the night, there ARE really weird people out. I’ve been chased by meth heads before, but I’ve never been fearful of my life or anything. There are some weird homeless out at that hour, high on who knows what, yelling and speaking in tongues but… I don’t know.

Chris: Yeah, I think as artists, we crave that kind of energy, which is why we live in LA, and not Vermont, or Rhode Island, or Virginia… or Colorado.

*pause*

You know, I think people want to be here. The real estate’s pretty solid. I feel that because it’s the anchor, or the next door neighbor to the film industry, and it’s position within Los Angeles Proper, I feel like it’s always going to be a solid place to have roots and be in. The one thing that can be the game changer is if there’s a major, natural disaster situation… Because we are on a liquefaction area. *worrisome laugh* I’m not obsessive about it, but I think if there’s a major natural disaster in Los Angeles, West Hollywood’s pretty much all going to collapse. That’s a risk anywhere, but here… I think it’s an actual risk. I don’t know… We’ve been having all these little earthquakes here lately, I’m concerned. *sinister look* Are you prepared for that?

Karl: Fuck no.

Chris: No extra water? No cans?

Karl: No, we don’t have shit… We’re so East Coast, we suck.